ND5XS Drop Outs

Posted by: IanG on 16 August 2012

Wonder if anyone can help.

 

I got an ND5XS in April this year. I was streaming mainly ripped CDs from a QNAP NAS using 200 MBps power lines. All was fine until about a month ago when I started to experience random drop outs. The problem was mainly when listening to the hi res Beatles FLAC albums but occasionally happened on standard CD rips.

 

My dealer was round installing PSU and he witnessed the issue. He lent me a long

length of Ethernet cable which I tried overnight and that seemed to cure the problem.

 

So last weekend I hard wired my ND5 to my router using Cat 5e cable and the unit played all day Sunday with no issues at all. I have come to listen to it tonight and the problem has returned.

 

The dropouts sometimes occur randomly but they always occur between track and this is most noticeable on the "gap less" second side of Abbey Road for example. Where the tracks normally flow without break one into another, there is now a long gap between them whilst the buffer returns to 100%.

 

You can see when the dropouts are going to occur by watching he buffer % which drops 100, 90, 50, 30, Dropout. It then slowly comes back up to 100% and music restarts.

 

As the hardwiring seemingly hasn't fixed the problem, I suspect the ND5 needs to go back to the dealer however I thought I'd see if anyone has experienced / solved similar problems.

 

For information my router is the BT Home Hub 3.0.

 

I did initially suspect my network but I should say that the whole system worked swimmingly for 3 months + with the same router and the power lines.

Posted on: 16 August 2012 by IanG

Should also mention that mostly n-stream connection /display/album selection is rapid. When this problem is happening, it is incredibly slow.

 

Am running the much maligned Twonkey on the QNap.

Posted on: 16 August 2012 by rich46

i have same problem with high res 192k flac transposed wav same buffering prob with the nd5. if i run with flac only no prob.  no problem at all with 92k at  A

Posted on: 16 August 2012 by PG

Similar issue with my Qute, which is hard wired to a netgear switch as is my Qnap NAS.

 

Today, plays one song, drops and resets to the various folders. Then plays for half an hour and the same, then played for close on 4 hours before dropping.

 

On a good day it plays flawlessly and on others it drops more regularly. 

 

No rhyme or reason to it and when its bad I have the urge to go back to CDs, when its good its the best bit of kit ever.

 

I conclude Naim/Network is like an old Alfa Romeo great when working but a bit temperamental

Posted on: 16 August 2012 by Felix H

Guys,

 

Does your problem persist if you simplify your network even further? I mean getting rid of the router or at least removing & preventing all other connections to it. The BT Home Hub has Wireless capability so if you try this you must disable wireless to make sure nobody else nearby is trying to open connections to it.

 

I'm no streaming expert, was just a thought in case you didn't try that yet. The NAS and the sw running on it could be another suspect of course but that's for somebody else to comment on.

 

Fedor

Posted on: 16 August 2012 by IanG
Thanks guys. It's nice to know you're not alone ! Have any of you taken up with your dealer/naim ? I personally believe there is an issue somewhere. I initially thought it was the network but as hardwiring has not worked I'm now moving my suspiscions to the ND5. As I said, the system had worked flawlessly with Ethernet over mains for 3 - 4 months. All of a sudden these issues have started and appear to be worsening despite hardwiring the ND5 to my router. Nothing has changed on my network. The problem occurs just as often when I am in on my own with no other network traffic as when the rest of the family are in and using iDevices, laptops etc. I'm not happy to accept that this is just part of streaming. This was sold as being better than CD but they don't drop out.
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by rich46

just remembered if i have a high res album playing via the nd5 and use the pc , using the keyboard sometime i stop/loose music  

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by Iver van de Zand

Hi Ian,

 

I understand your way of thinking/arguing. Think you'd best contact Naim Support? I have a ND5XS too being hardwired over cat5e onto a NetGear switch and a laptop running Assett. Fortunately I haven't faced any problems yet.

 

Iver

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by Felix H
Originally Posted by IanG:
As I said, the system had worked flawlessly with Ethernet over mains for 3 - 4 months. All of a sudden these issues have started and appear to be worsening despite hardwiring the ND5 to my router. Nothing has changed on my network.

In addition to the ND5 you have two other small computers there - the router and the server/NAS. With computers a lot can change in 3-4 months. And I don't mean just things that you yourself changed.

 

To eliminate the router as a suspect I'd remove it from the network. If the problem persists I'd next look at the NAS/server (or try the ND5 with a known working server).

 

F

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
Have a couple of things to try. I have the dealers demo ND5 to try and ascertain if it's the streamer or the network. Dealer has also recommended using an Ethernet switch to ensure the ND5 only gets the data it is interested in. The latter makes some sense as at the weekend, when the unit was running perfectly, it was running through a switch. I've had to disconnect that and hard wire direct to the ND5 (for reasons not related to this). The guy is coming back to properly configure the switch this weekend. Hopefully, by the end of the weekend, I should have a better idea if not the final solution.
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by rjstaines

The Netgear GS605 switch will give problems on throughput, as may other models. Try the TP Link TL-SG1005D 5-port gigabit switch from Amazon for £16 (GBP16) - it works well and won't give you drop out problems.  Wire your NAS, ND5 and router into this switch and happy days !

 

If you still get drop outs, talk to Naim, whose expertise in these matters is unbelievebly excellent, but invest the sixteen smakeroos first in a good switch; that's my advice from experience.

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
Only problem with that is that the NAS and router are in one room and the ND5XS is in another which is fed by by new Cat5e cable. I would have to : Hard wire NAS to router. Run Cat 5e cable to lounge Install switch Install patch cables to ND5 and Sky box Does this configuration work ?
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by rjstaines

You would be advised to keep the NAS and ND5 away from (i.e not plugged into) the router and both plugged directly into the switch (along with Sky box if you wish). Then cable from switch to the router, so the only network connection running into the router is the one to the switch... and also from your PC if you wish. That'll work fine - trust me, I'm a Naim user.

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
I have to say, I don't understand that as I thought the NAS had to plug into the router to allow it to stream to other areas of the house. The set up as described wouldn't work for me. The NAS is in a room at the front of the house with the router. The ND5XS is in a room at the rear of the house. At the moment I have the following plugged into the router NAS, XBox, Sky box 1 and a cat 5e cable round to the lounge. In their I wish to connect my ND5XS and Sky box 2 to the router, presumably with some kind of switch. Could someone tell me how best to optimise the above set up such that : a. My ND5XS will work without dropout b. I don't have to move any of the above boxes In simple terms as I'm (relatively) new to this.
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi as Rjstaines says best plug everything into a switch, rather than the switch ports on a consumer router. Some consumer routers have very low throughput switch ports built in... Fine for web browsing but can suffer for normal LAN usage. Using a consumer switch to connect your devices such as NAS, upnp server, and network player will normally yield a good result. Use a patch lead to connect your switch to your Internet router, then you let your router simply connect your LAN to the Internet (that is what a router does- it connects networks, and switches connect devices).

Good luck

 

Simon

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
Thanks Simon, So if I'm understanding this correctly In room 1 I put the following Router with a patch lead to a switch. Then each of the individual cables to NAS, XBox, Sky box 1 and Ethernet cable to lounge. In lounge, Ethernet cable goes into a second switch with patch leads to ND5XS and sky box 2 ? One further question, do the switches need to be configured via PC or are they simply cabled up as described, plugged in and away you go ? Sorry to be a bit thick but I need it spelling out ! Dealers ND5XS has run without a hitch so far ! Only 2 albums so far though.
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Ian, that sounds ok. If you choose  regular cheap consumer switches (unmanaged switches) then they are plug and play. No config required.

Simon

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
Thanks again Simon, Any suggestions on minimum spec. I don't want to have to buy them twice !
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by Simon-in-Suffolk

A little 4 and 8 port Netgear switch. 1000mbps (1Gbps) switches are cheap and readily available so might as well go for that speed.

Simon

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by AntonD

+1 for Netgear. I use gs105 5 port gig switch. Small, no noise and runs very cool. No dropouts even with 192 studio master. Buffer is always 100%.

Been running about a month now with not 1 single issue.

Regards, Anton

Posted on: 17 August 2012 by IanG
Strangely, we are doing nothing different to last night. If anything we are using more wireless devices and my dealers unit hasn't fallen over once. I've listened to most of The Beatles back catalogue now ! To my wife's ears also, the dealers unit sounds far superior to mine. I'm edging back to an issue with my unit rather than my network.
Posted on: 17 August 2012 by AntonD

That's also a possibility.I would get new unit if you can. Specially if the dealer witnessed it and you can prove nothing wrong with your router During the dropouts.

 I hope my nd5 doesn't start doing this. 

Posted on: 18 August 2012 by sbilotta

Do you have anything running on your NAS in the background like backups, scanning music directory content or else ? That is when I see most dropouts occur i.e. it's not network or streamer related, otherwise you probably would have experienced this some time ago and with more consistency, but NAS cpu and ram related.

Try verifying your NAS' resource usage when it happens and when it doesn't.

 

All the best

Stefano

Posted on: 18 August 2012 by HTM_1968

I had these issues with my ND5SX which was plugged into a Virgin Media SuperHub (more hub than super in many ways). I put a switch between the streamer and the SuperHub and since then there has been no issue.

Posted on: 18 August 2012 by IanG

Thanks for that,

 

Ive had a look at the NAS admin page and nothing obvious there.

 

HTM_1968 where your issues intermittent or all the time ? Mine come and go despite no obvious changes/extra network traffic hence the confusion. My unit also played with no issue at all for 3+ months.

 

The dealers unit has probably played 12 albums without issue so far. If I can't get the dealers unit to fail once this weekend I'm not sure what to do next ?

 

Add a switch and retry mine or return mine to the dealer for him to play with and see if he can replicate the problem on his network.

 

In some ways I am wishing the dealers unit to fail and then it is definitely a network issue. If it doesn't, it could still be either the unit or the network although my gut feeling is still the network.

Posted on: 18 August 2012 by HTM_1968
Originally Posted by IanG:

Thanks for that,

 

Ive had a look at the NAS admin page and nothing obvious there.

 

HTM_1968 where your issues intermittent or all the time ? Mine come and go despite no obvious changes/extra network traffic hence the confusion. My unit also played with no issue at all for 3+ months.

 

The dealers unit has probably played 12 albums without issue so far. If I can't get the dealers unit to fail once this weekend I'm not sure what to do next ?

 

Add a switch and retry mine or return mine to the dealer for him to play with and see if he can replicate the problem on his network.

 

In some ways I am wishing the dealers unit to fail and then it is definitely a network issue. If it doesn't, it could still be either the unit or the network although my gut feeling is still the network.

 

My ND5SX arrived here in January and played flawlessly until about 3 weeks ago when the dropouts started. There was no systematic pattern in the dropouts that I could detect. All that time it was connected to the Virgin not-so-SuperHub directly. I installed a switch between the streamer and SuperHub and all was good again.

 

The ND5SX is currently sitting in my cellar along with a DAC and  the HiCap for my SNAXO. All are surplus to requirement following the arrival of an NDS and a SuperCap for my SNAXO. The NDS is playing flawlessly, but I am having issues with contolling it using N-Stream (see my new thread earlier today).