SB Touch and nDAC

Hmmm, is Spotify the primary source of music through the SBT? This might be the main culprit of your dissatisfaction. What is the bitrate with Spotify? I bet it's fairly low, try some higher bitrate stations instead. Don't forget CD is 16/44 and Naim knows how to make it sound good. I prefer to listen to 24/96 music or higher through the SBT. For the price, I think the SBT is a great source. Unfortunately it's been discontinued. A good friend and I were postulating that it might be because Logitech isn't making much money since there's quite a bit of technology in that small shiny box.

But definitely get the app that allows 24/192 output on the SBT. There are also some other tweaks out there you can google. Oh and are you using wifi or wired ethernet, the latter is preferred.

You can definitely improve on that switching wallwart that's supplied with the SBT. As posted above, an external PSU should help tremendously especially since you don't have an outboard DAC. Check out google, these are not Naim power supplies. I'm looking into one myself.

DAC vs ND5XS is something you'll have to try. It also depends on what you play through your system and also how you interact with your digital front end. I prefer to use Android-based devices so the SBT can be controlled via an app perfectly whereas Naim is still only happy playing with Apple. Be aware that the ND5XS will ouput 24/192 max whereas the DAC can handle 32/768. I tried some 32 bit music via USB on the DAC and was quite impressed.

Let me just say though, I still prefer my CDS3 for maximum listening enjoyment. The SBT just lets me have some convenience and variety. I didn't think the bare NDX (552/500/S600) was good enough for the price but I need to listen to the NDS at some point.

Arun

It is the replacement for the power unit/transformer that brings electricity from your mains to the SBT.  The one I got from Welborne Labs was around $240.  They configure for both 110V & 220V depending on your location (I did check but your profile was mum on the subject of your whereabouts!)  There are also others. 

I think getting away from the DAC in the SBT is a big step, although I do not know anything about Spotify, and even when I listen to various internet radio stations, there is a wide variance in SQ - some are pretty good, others, not so much.

However, that said, with Logitech dropping the product, I would be reticent to invest much in something that may not really work in a couple of years.

Louis Andre: for SBT, the PSU upgrade is useful irrespective of how you use the unit.  (Not just for if you are using the DAC.)  But it is not like a Naim power supply, in size or expense.  Mine cost $240 or so (US) - from a company in Oklahoma called Welborne Labs - and they make these also for European current as well.  They are a little slow from order to delivery, but they do eventually get it to you.  Google them and find their site, and there are also other companies that make similar units.

If you are using a better DAC (I am using the one in my SuperNait) that will improve things as well.  I do not know which PSU go with the ND5XS, or how much improvemnt they bring - others here can advise you on that topic.  But the PSU we are talking about has nothing to do with any Naim equipment, just the SBT as a replacement for the small unit that comes with the SBT to plug into the wall.

I have sent an email to Paul Hynes to see what PSU he suggests...

If I then go the SBT + linear PSU route, what woudl then give me the best sound quality: connecting to a nDAC or connecting to a ND5xs?

Or, do you know of any other cheaper alternatives (external DAC) that are almost as good as the nDAC?

The Rega DAC is quite good, a cheap alternative to the more expensive nDAC

I tested my SBT (bare) with nDAC and the result was very very good: more details and sparks, greater instrument separation and sound stage (compared to SBT digital out into my SuperNait's internal dac). So yes, the nDAC is a nice upgrade and partners well with SBT's low jitter.

I also listened the ND5XS fronting a similar system but in a different room and speakers (SF Cremona), so it's difficult to derive definitive conclusions.

My feeling is that nDAC offers more details and sparks but can be a bit on the bright/forward side, while ND5XS is possibly more neutral. Maybe because its internal dac is less sophisticate and just conveys less information? Don't know but the result is very good as well.

I'm waiting to do a proper demo at my place to decide, but I feel the nDAC might be my way to go.

Either way I think it's a matter of taste cause both solutions are very valid and sit in the same league, IMO.

I have tried quite a few combinations with the SBT/nDAC/ND5XS - my ranking of the combinations is as follows - not everyone will agree and at the end of the day you need to listen - we all have different preferences and priorities. So FWIW my ranking is:

1. Best - SBT wireless - nDAC

2. ND5XS - via ethernet

3. SBT ethernet - ND5XS (using internal DAC)

4. SBT ethernet - DACMagic

5. SBT wireless - DACMagic

6. Stand alone SBT

all of these were tested in the same system and room - but just one opinion.

I tried the sbt for a while but didn't like the sound or iPad app. Am now using a sonos wih rega dac and think it sounds very good, I was also running it with a 122x/150x combo. The only thing I miss is the 24bit support on the sbt but still think the sonos is the better choice (for me that is)

Spotifys bit rate is 320k and I think it is quite good quality for streaming. 

I've also attached an RF choke to the Ethernet cable to remove some of the noise. 

Bertie, I infer that 'SBT ethernet - nDAC' was even better than your best choice...

Thanks for posting your conclusions, I think they are very valuable cause you have a quite revealing system.

Out of topic:

RF chokes seem to be cheap and helping a lot. However, I can't find them here in Dubai.

Are they sold only in the UK?!?

Do you think it could be worth to get an old pc power cable, take off the choke and stick to my ethernet cable? very DIY...

Unfortunately I haven't tried SBT ethernet-DAC. I borrowed the cables for ethernet over mains whilst I tried the ND5Xs - when this went back the cables etc went back to my dealer (Audience in Bath - very very helpful).   

I got mine off ebay but RS and maplin also sell them, they are sometimes also called ferrite beads, ferrous rings or ferrite chokes etc. The ones i got are clip on and come in different circumferances for different cables. Not sure how much of a difference they make but the theory works so have done it anyway. 

When my Unitiserve was returned to Naim for service, I took the SBT from the kitchen where it sounds fine and installed it into the the Naim Dac/555PS to play my music files.

However after a few days I removed it and used USB sticks, tedious to use, but the sound of the SBT was very poor in the main system. It's fine in the kitchen system using budget NAD/Linn speakers.

I  did not try an alternative PSU which may well have helped.

Gerry

Hi,
I use the SBT for 1 year, and really happy with it the last few months, after I discover the Soundcheck mod.

Please google it and try on your system.

Soundcheck mod can disable the screen, the wifi, modify some parameters on the SBT, enhance the output..etc. When the screen and wifi is off, basically the SBT is like a brick, but  then sound quality wise is vastly improve.

Cheers

Thanks for the tip but I need WiiFi in the kitchen.

Cheers

Gerry

Agree with all comments. I have an SBT with a Welborne supply and have done the mod to give 192/24. This is going into my NDac which is powered by an XPS2. Sounds pretty good, especially with Hi Def downloads.

A couple of points, keep the SBT away from your pre amp. I relocated mine a couple of shelves below my 252 and it jammed the 252 function buttons, although the remote still worked OK. Keep cables free and not touching others, especially the network cable - god knows why but it does make a difference.

Finally I will soon be trying the Unitiserve SSD to see if it is better sound quality.

Tim

There are options, that you can choose to turn on/off wifi, turn on/off the screen, turn on/off the IR receiver (which you cannot control by remote but still can control by Ipad/ipod touch). You can choose not to turn the wifi off.

I believe turning off the screen, wifi, IR give the best solution, as it eliminates the source of noise/interference and give the SBT a big boost in sound

Try it, I wholeheartedly recommend the soundcheck mod for SBT