New to Streaming - NAS help please

Careful with that Dremel Eugene!

'Streaming Audio' is a sea-change in domestic Hi-Fi and it still fries my brain too, despite trying to 'move with the times' and engage with friends' streaming systems.

I've tried the 'Mac gizmo as source' option, and it just isn't (sonically) good enough to these ears. A pukka Hi-Fi streamer such as the Naim NDX and NDS can sound very good indeed, but the computer related stuff required to make it work seems to have a propensity to periodically fall over, which would frustrate the hell out of me - particularly if I couldn't fix it.

So it's good old shiny beer-mats for me for the time being.

I'm sure streaming will be lovely with a bit more development. That's when I'll be more interested in it.

I'm not trying to put you off - just be aware that you might have to deal with some 'computer related faff' from time to time with streaming audio. That said; I heard a friend's home dem of an NDS t'other day and it sounded absolutely superb.

Good luck.

John.

I have the same setup as you -- UnitiServe and Synology 212, and I do have it backing up to the NAS as it should.  I can't remember the precise steps I followed . . but I will putter around and see what I can come up with for you.

You seem close . . . just not close enough. 

You say you have created a store, if you mean a store that is the problem, a store is only used to hold rips done by the userve. You have to create a share, then set the share as a backup, and then create a backup job.

There's the problem.

What is a share? The Userve tells me that to create a backup of my library of tunes I need a store. I want to backup the disks I've ripped. Why not a store?

In fact why not a whole frickin shopping mall?

Where is the share created? What creates it? The NAS? The Userve?

A short while ago NAS appliances lived in business with techies to support them. Because they were a pig to keep running.

To this consumer the crap (and in my world it is crap) you have to go through with technology to get it serviceable is madness. I bought a hifi that uses bits on a hard drive rather than bits on a silver platter. I want it to be as user friendly as my cd player was. If it isn't I should probably have bought something else.

Where's that frickin dremel?

Ahh Claus nailed it.

Rzme0 -- please read section 4.8.4 of the UnitiServe Reference Manual.  It describes how to do what you want to do, starting with creating an empty Network Share, and then making that a Backup storage location.

Briefly, "stores" are places that your uServe can rip cd's to.  "Shares" are places that the uServe can find music files that were ripped other ways, such as using your computer, or files that were purchased online.  That's the difference between Stores and Shares.

But that section of the manual I pointed you to does describe how to get the backup running on a NAS.  Post again if you need more help, as again I've got it running here at home fine.

Thanks Bart

I did go through the manual but it makes no sense to me. Forgive my ignorance but my head gets mashed buy this stuff.

I have ripped a thousand CDs to my uServe.

I want to back them up in case the uServe goes pop.

I want to be able to do one great big nasty back up then do regular incrementals either on a scheduled basis or ad hoc, as might be prudent if I go an a music buying spree.

I don't want the uServe to look for stuff I've ripped in other ways. So it looks like I don't need a 'share'.

I don't want to rip CDs to anywhere else but my uServe. So it looks like I don't need a 'store'.

I just want to back up my uServe to the hugely over engineered jbod I have in the Synology.

I have carved my granny's name on my forearm with the dremel. Messy. But easier and less painful that network bloody-attached storage.

The automated backup system of the uServe, once running, truly is painless.  You should let it do what it wants to do, which is check itself and backup anything new daily.  It will do this totally unattended.

The uServe will only put its backup into an empty "share" that is designated as the backup location.  Not a store, but a share.  Make a new network share (a folder on your NAS that you create and then designate as a share with the uServe web interface), name that folder UServe Backup or something similar, and use the web interface to designate that share as a backup location.

You're totally correct -- you do want to back it up in case it goes "pop." 

Redemption. At last. It's working. And thank you for the suggestions - they were very helpful.

But seriously - what a faff. You're quite right Bart. It is all so simple when it works but is, in this soft punter's mind, a mess of  detail and options that turns the simple (but luxurious) consumer-grade matter of buying a stereo for playing tunes in the home in to an IT operation.

IMO (and that's all it is) the Naim manual is too Naimy. It assumes that I know what I'm doing or that my dealer is also doing the non-Naim bits. A little glossary for noobs would be useful as well as a step by step complete-twonk's guide to setting up a NAS (using a well known brand or two as examples.)

The NAS side is something else. It is nothing like a consumer device. It is a miniature version of a NetApp or EMC appliance with all the complexity in a small package. If my mom can make it work it's a consumer device. If I can make it work it's a consumer device. When I have to spend hours trawling websites and fora for tutorials to help me back up a CD it's not a consumer device. Ironically I spent years with EMC selling storage.

Anyhoo. Just some thoughts.

As far as the music is concerned - it's all backed up. And more important than any of all this it sounds fantastic.

It assumes that I know what I'm doing or that my dealer is also doing the non-Naim bits.

It assumes the dealer is doing his/her job in installing your product and getting it to work to your satisfaction in your home. Far too many of them don't and can't - Naim should have a cull of dealers who can't support streaming products.

I don't think that this is limited to Naim and their dealers. For example a friend wanted to purchase some Sonos equipment. He is not into HiFi and most certainly not into computers. He does not want to rip CD's he just wants to stream internet radio and play music from the likes of spotify.

He purchased the kit, the dealer and Sonos says connect Bridge press buttons, install software on computer, connect Sonos Play and press buttons. It should be a maximum of 10 mins. Oh by the way disable your firewall.

He rang me and he's disable Windows firewall and his antivirus software firewall and nothing happens. What he didn't realise is that his router also has a firewall and nobody mentioned it to him. I talked him through this bit and hey presto the Sonos gear updates itself and it all works. 

I have worked in electronics and IT and I truly believe that a lot of technology has moved into the public domain too quickly. The public should have it but it must be implemented in a way that shields them from it but must be accessible if the need arises.

By the way we did turn all the firewalls back on afterwards and all is well.

I agree that it's not just Naim; but home networking is not that difficult if you have a reasonable understanding of the basics. With the level of markup that dealers have it is incumbent on them to make sure they do and make sure the system works for the customer otherwise they are mere box shifters that do not deserve their margins.

Pev I agree, BUT as "internet pricing" becomes more prevalent, and as Amazon (box-shifters) will sell certain hardware at bare minimum cost, it is increasingly difficult for the dealers to do both -- sell at competitive prices AND provide a high level of personalized service.

I don't want Naim to go the way of the box-shifters, but probably many would be happy to buy at 30% off retail and do the setup themselves.  It is hard to satisfy both classes of customers.

I don't want Naim to go the internet pricing/box shifter route either but there are too many (one would be too many) Naim dealers who are charging full retail for inadequate support and leaving Naim support or this forum to pick up the slack. This is why so many here and over in HiFi Corner think streaming is unreliable or difficult. It's also why streamer firmware updating is such an issue - I know from personal experience that the 2 nearest Naim dealers to me are unable to do this yet customers are expected to do it for themselves. I don't want price cuts or a new business model, I want dealers to do what they are paid for then I won't have to use a dealer 100 miles away.

Pev, this is a big assumption. I would say that knowing where your firewalls are and how to manage them is pretty basic. So is knowing your wi-fi password as I encountered with someone a few months back that didn't know theirs. I sniffed around on his network, it was set to "password", the default his router came with. Not only is this simple but it is also not secure.

It may not be difficult for the likes of me and you but clearly a lot of people find it difficult, or are not interested. They just want to use stuff and get the benefits of the technology.

I'm not sure about the dealer argument. My dealer and I have quite animated discussions about technical and all sorts of other stuff. They have been in the business a long time and keep up to date with the market. I know that they also go out and install in this country (UK) and all over the world.

Spartacus, I think we are in agreement - I should have emphasised that I meant that it shouldn't be too hard for dealers to master if they are making a large part of their living from selling network based products. I agree that customers shouldn't have to make streaming products work - at Naim prices that's the dealer's job. Also I agree there are some really excellent and technically competent dealers but... my nearest dealer is great at setting up LP12s but can't update Uniti firmware and apparently isn't interested in learning so I use a dealer 100 miles away who gives me better service than the ones 10 and 20 miles away. All things being equal I'd rather shop local - all Naim dealers should achieve minimum standards but from my experience and from some of the posts on this forum, more than a few don't.

I'm glad that you got it sorted out, and that you're enjoying the music. That's as it should be -- now the backup debacle is ancient history

Spartacus you told you mate to turn his routers firewall off?

a little knowledge and all that.

The only advice I would give on the NAS is, if its just really you using it on your home LAN, don't worry about setting users and passwords, as its not necessery at this level (i.e. if someone is through to your NAS from the outside you probably turned off the routers firewall) 

also new to backuping up....

i have 2 TB US with a lot of HDtracks files in the dowloads folder ont he US.  

Will the desktop client also backup the downloads folder as well as the ripped music????