NDS with 555ps vs Klimax ds

Cris, did you run KDS/1 with Davaar 7?

Why not add a third 555ps to the NDS. The decision should be easy then ....

1 box against 3 !

Equal on sound quality.

One small box (and one shelf) against three larger ones ( and three shelves).

One mains lead against two. Three cables to dress against six.

Silent power supply against humming transformers.

Easy choice.

Hans

I suspect it was Davaar 9 AMA. I know both Peter and Phil were impressed with it when first installed.

Cris interesting conclusions. I listen a lot to Classical, Jazz and smooth jazz/easy listening/ female vocal and guess what, that's been thru' a KDS/1 with 552/500 ( though some interesting experiments are in progress but that's another story). What I find apart from the excellent resolution and extension of the KDS is the lovely sense of fluidity which I think you picked up on. I suspect that all suits my listening range rather well.

Mind you a bit of Yello or Massive Attack has passed thru' said electronics and seemed pretty spectacular as the volume rose so as you suggest it is gonna be a hard decision for you.

Geoff

Were the power supplies DR version or older version?

Will/did you check also how much difference there is with CD555? Would be interesting even if you're not in the market for a CD player.

Thanks

as a matter of interest, whats the difference in price between a fully equipped KDS and th Naim equivalent (one or 2 x 555PS's ?

The DR question interests me too, were the 555PS's the DR versions?

enjoy

ken

A fully equipped KDS/1 and a NDS with 1 555DR PS are round about the same price.

So adding a second 555DR PS makes the 'full up' NDS about 7K GBP more expensive than the KDS (not taking into account the rack shelves).

Geoff

Geoff, many thanks.

I make it that the extra 555PS and then the requisite Burndies, come to £6470, but i guess that is what you meant by 'about 7K'

enjoy

ken

Answering the DR post- one of the 555ps was DR the other wasn't. When we started the dem we used the DR555 with two Burndys to power both sides of the NDS. Then added the second 555ps. I am not sure which was supplying the analogue side - Phil from Cymbiosis was doing all the hard work - I was just enjoying the music.

The NDS was excellent - but so was the Klimax 

Cris, I'm sure the DR-ed 555PS was feeding the analogues section.

The question is how important to have DR-ed 555PS (or even a regular 555PS) for the digital section? Doesn't XPS or even XS make the same job?

I am not sure AMA.

We started with a 555ps because that is what I already had - powering a DAC. Whether two XPS units would do the same job is an interesting point - would certainly make the NDS more affordable.

Maybe the engineers can answer that one - or the boys from Cymbiosis 

Cris, I compared 555PS against XPS with nDAC and the difference was very noticeable.

So I don't expect XPS has any chance against 555PS on NDS.

What I was saying above is that no doubts the 555PS-DR should feed the analogue section of NDS as this is the most straightforward and critical section of NDS streamer.

As for the digital part than I believe as soon as it's separated from the analogue PS the end result would be pretty much the same. This is why I'm really interested to know if there is any difference between NDS-555PS-555PS and NDS-555PS-XPS or even NDS-555PS-XP5.

Intuitively (which often fails me) I expect NDS-555PS-XP5 would be a better sounding player than NDS-XPS-XPS being the both about the same price.

The only possible upside of "digital" 555PS I can think off is that it may be providing a better clock stability for NDS's DAC and may be less polluting the mains (which makes less negative feedback to the second 555PS). But I'm rather skeptical here...

ISTR reading somewhere that as soon as you start using 2 power supplies for the NDS, then they have to be 555PS's. DR or not not DR doesn't matter.

but of course i could be mistaken...

enjoy

ken

Good read guys.

Out of interest how do you know which is analogue/digital side of NDS (Input 1/input 2)?

Was the demo with flac or wav, big difference if you use the right one

Oh no not the Flac vs Wav argument again. There must be reams of posts on this forum debating this back into history, with one side insisting there is no difference and the other insisting there is,

So Paul Naim's position is?.....

Ken, according to Naim when NDS is used with two PS then the one on the analogue side should be 555PS while the other (a "digital" side) can be anything from XP5, XPS or 555PS.

DR or not DR does not matter (but I hope it does matter in terms of SQ ).

Naim never claimed that dual-PS NDS should be two 555PS only and I don't know where this rumor is coming from.

Originally Posted by Paul Stephenson:

Was the demo with flac or wav, big difference if you use the right one

Oh no not the Flac vs Wav argument again. There must be reams of posts on this forum debating this back into history, with one side insisting there is no difference and the other insisting there is,

 

So Paul Naim's position is?.....

Geoff, I do agree that wav sounds cleaner than flac on SOME streamers (not all).

Both nDAC and KDS are not that fast CPU inside to decode the compressed flac on the fly without  glitches.

But if Peter and Phil (I guess more Phil than Peter ) instructed uPnP server to transcode FLAC to WAV then both KDS and NDS were in the same conditions.

Even when flac is streamed -- in my experience the difference between FLAC and WAV is way too small comparing to, say, difference between the sonic presentation of nDAC/555PS and KDS/1.

What Naim can be interested in is that WHY so many people prefer the sonic signature of KDS/1 while the nDAC (and even more so NDS) have the same hi-fi qualities: like transparency, soundstage, dynamic range etc.

Besides I did a through comparison between NDAC/555PS against KDS/1 and still Naim wins in the bass weight and articulation. Possibly more so with NDS/555PS. 

So why KDS1 again?

I believe that the most beguiling feature of KDS/1 which drives me (and many other people) crazy is that they managed to create a very ANALOGUE sounding digital player.

Most vinyl lovers will find KDS/1 much better and more natural sounding player than Naim.

I guess Linn managed to find a very tuneful balance between digital pre-processing of the incoming bitstream and the I2V conversion followed by analogue filter at the output. I don't really see a breaking ground in KDS design. I believe it's more like a very successful voicing.

I remember that the original KDS/0 with non-Dynamik PS was very analogue sounding player but as it usually happens very blurred in bass and transients. I liked the wya it played the old Red Books -- at least they become playable, but once we get to the high quality CDs Naim was way ahead.

When KDS/0 was upgeaded with Dynamic PS it was  revelation -- they managed to get almost the same fast transients as Naim with a tiny SMPS. It was a real breakthrough. But I still could not stand the bass.

Finally Linn came up with KDS/1 featuring modified I2V, new output Lundhal transformers (much bigger) and upgraded digital pre-processing. The sound is amazing and gets very close to the Naim sonic signature. The bass is still a bit less prominent and tight (comparing to the best Naims) but it's just a small step behind. In all other musical domains the KDS/1 is doing phenomenal job.

I do believe that Naim can work on this and possibly implement the same in ND555 while retaining its classical qualities in fast transient and weighty bass. This could be a fantastic machine.

The jewel in the Naim's crown and the masterpiece of audiophile world.

I shall be keeping my 555PS and waiting for this happy day.

What evidence do you have for this rather sweeping statement?

I've a SE spec LP12 and prefer my CD555 (and the NDS/555PS I've heard) to the KDS/1 because to my ears  Naim is more natural sounding than the KDS, even more so with the DR555PS.

I think Cris's  observation that the Naim sounded better with live recordings and the Linn with easy listening encapsulates the difference.

John, when I said "than Naim" I obviously meant "than Naim nDAC/555PS" which I was contesting.

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear above.

The fact is that all people I know much preferred KDS/1 over nDAC/555PS (and I obviously can't say the same for people whom I don't know).

btw I really want to buy ND555 one day -- as soon as it follows CD555 sonic rendering.

I like Naim signature, especially on live music -- so I can clearly see what Cris found in NDS.

I even don't mind to buy a second 555PS if it brings a future streamer on sing.

Ama,

I'm with you on the nDAC. It's the one piece of Naim equipment that I never really got on with. It sounded clear and dynamic but with a digital edge which never completely disappeared unfortunately.

not a rumour fom me. i am simply mistaken then... thanks fo correction.

enjoy

ken

When comparing high end kit like this, I think it's more about voicing, presentation and listener preference than absolute quality. There are so many subjective factors.