Is the Naim AV2 still a worthwhile purchase?

I should add that if I go the AV2 route, I would also purchase the necessary NAP175 and a pair of NAP150 amps to drive all my speakers.

I also have a Velodyne SMS-1 to correct the bass response in my room for my M&K 1250 sub so EQ is not really used within my existing Pioneer.

Thanks again.

Proud,

You've probably come to the wrong place for a no.

I keep toying with chopping mine in, but that is for toys, & bells & whistles, such as:

DLNA;

Radio Streaming;

HDMI switching.

....not for sound quality.

IF you major on MUSIC, not sound steering, then I think the AV2 is peerless.

If you want 5-7.1 with loud bangs & sweeping objects around the room then there may be a better option.

I use an OPPO, and so feed the HQ Codecs from the 7.1 outputs into my MULTI input.

My local friendly dealer pointed a customer in my direction last year to come and listen to mine, .....he bought a 2nd hand AV2.

M

Thanks for the replies so far.   Surround steering effects CAN be rather impressive but I find that if the receiver or processor can't get voices right or resolve the finer details, it isn't worth having.  For example, my Pioneer SC-05 has impressive surround steering effects - all of my speakers are quite active when the moment calls for it - however voices can sound rather thin or the sound can become cluttered when action sequences really take hold.

I am looking for something that allows voices to sound natural while digging out the finest of details in a soundtrack without sounding clustered or a mess when the action starts in.

Would you say that the AV2 fits the bill?  I have the opportunity to buy one at a reasonable cost.  I would have to partner it with a Rotel amp until I can add the requisite Naim amplification.

I figure that this is the perfect place to ask since if most die hard Naim owners have given up on the AV2, then I likely should pass.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

My answer would be YES.

I have used the AV2 with a cross section of non-Naim amps, as well, with no issues.

M

IMO it was the last great processor produced the home cinema bubble went pop a long time ago it really doesn't work to well in the average UK livingroom. To get the best from home cinema you need a dedicated room and then the AV2 will be fantastic fed it DTS and its the best product I've heard at any price point for creating atmosphere from a film soundtrack. 

The future just now is all 50" screens and streaming audio using Ipads I like what Linn are doing bringing in HMDI to there products allows a decent two channel sound. 

Thanks Neill and Mr. Underhill.   Have either of you tried out the latest offerings from the likes of Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon or such to see how the newer receivers compare to the AV2?  Getting an Av2 and the requisite amps requires a bit of cash and I just want to make sure that the Av2 is indeed an upgrade, despite being a legacy product.

I have listened to the Onkyo offerings, which are very good.

But here you and I are in very different positions, I bought my AV2 when they first came out having owned a cross section of processors from most the good makes, none of which floated my boat. The AV2 blew me away, it was borrowed and then bought - immediately.

Therefore I have made the investment, and so is it worth me selling and getting an Onkyo? No.

As I said above, the Onkyo did tempt me, but for non-AV sound reasons.

In your case I can only suggest you do the legwork, borrow the processors and have a listen ....then try and listen to an AV2.

Being Naim the AV2 is still supported, and I have decided to keep it going as long as poss, or at least until I hear something that I think tops it - which I haven't heard to date.

M

When Tag left the market we really lost something in the home cinema field they were pushing designs forward at a great pace. You won't get the latest bells and whistle features with the AV2 but it was never really about that in the first place it was about top quality sound and from that perspective it was a great success. 

You'll need to look at ebay or dealers to find an AV2 have a look to see if you can pick up a Tag product which if looked after will give you great performance and you can pick up there five channel amp fairly cheaply. 

You could also look at this product 

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/Prod...g=En&Tab2=8200AP

Like I say IMO the market has went for home cinema Linn have the right idea quality two channel streaming products with HDMI inputs. 

Proud,

I owned an AV2 with a DVD5 and Naim amps when I had a home cinema set-up with projector some years ago. Frankly I didn't think it was worth anywhere near the asking price. There were software/firmware issues with it that were never resolved despite an update. It was a well made bit of kit and sounded excellent for sure - but as I say, just not worth the money IMO.

For those that already own an AV2 and are happy with it that's fine. But IMO to buy one now would be a big mistake. It is a discontinued product and frankly Naim's support for it IME was somewhat half-hearted when it was a current model, so I would not hold out much hope of continued future support. Naim discontinued all their AV range of products some time ago - this surely says something about their commitment to home cinema.

You would be far better off investigating products from other specialist companies that have an on-going interest in home cinema.

Peter

I'd say got for the AV2 as well. Look out for a NAP175 and a NAP150 and suitable speakers and you're good to go. I'm using mine with n-Sats, n-Cent on the fronts & some pretty cheap Mord Short things on the rear along with Naim's n-Sub. Sounds superb and the steering effects sound fantastic to my ears. Worth investing in a sound meter to help with levels for each speaker if you haven't already done so.

All of the kit was bought used in the last 2-3 years, & so the amps & processor came to less than one of Pioneer processors i was originally looking at. No plans at all to sell it. Just hope Naim will still be able to service or repair it years down the line from now. 

May even grab hold of another one if it comes along cheaply and keep it as a spare...

I confess I recently changed my AV2/NAP145/NAP150 for an Anthem receiver/ processor. Nothing wrong with the AV2, it was just that I needed to cut down on box count and for others operating the system having HDMI switching and integrated HD sound decoding made for a much simpler setup (hopefully no more panicky phone calls asking why there was no sound, and trying to work out what had been done to the system).

Soundwise, it's pretty good. The Anthem uses room correction software which has definitely benefitted the surround effects, but I think overall its difficult to say which I ultimately prefer.

Despite the change, I still reckon the AV2 is a superb processor, and has given me no problems. I originally moved from a fully-specced Tag-Mclaren processor to the AV2 and the latter was significantly better, despite not having the former's room correction technology on board.

I don't think it's fair to suggest Naim don't support their AV products to the same extent as their stereo components. I accept they appeared to have more problems with AV but that doesn't mean they offered less than their usual excellent service.

A good number of people who urge going the AV2 route are people who already own it and are happy with it. I do think this rather short-sighted though. I would not advocate changing from the AV2 if one is happy with it but to recommend the purchase of a discontinued and well out-of-date product seems a little unwise to me.

As for on-going support I can only refer to my own experience of owning the AV2. There were issues that were never resolved, despite several 'phone calls to HQ. My view is that the AV2, like the DVD5,  was/is an under-developed product that needed a good deal more technical development before all could be considered well. I felt I had been left high and dry after spending around £5K on a DVD player/processor. Friends commented that their £100 Sony or whatever job didn't have those issues, and indeed they were right.

I think the fact that Naim have abandoned the A/V market tells one all one needs to know about their ongoing commitment to it and their view of the viability of their A/V products in a rapidly changing market. Frankly I suspect that they were glad to see the back of them - and so was I when I disposed of mine.

Peter

Peter,

I would not put the AV2 in the same class as the DVD5 for issues, the latter being very error prone - but the most musical DVD player I have heard.

I would not agree that the AV2 is under-developed.

Naim have given sterling service to my AV2, including a service last year.

I wouldn't characterise their attitude to AV as abandonment. The simple truth is that AV 'standards' move very fast, and have concomitant licence fees. These can be a killer for boutique companies, where their R&D is forced to have a short shelf life, as customers generally look for the latest bells and whistles.

Much of the R&D in the DVD5 & AV2 has undoubtedly found a home in the streaming products.

As to someone joining the AV2 crowd I can only point at an earlier comment I made above, a customer of my now sadly defunct local dealership asked me to demo my AV2 to another customer. He listened, and then bought 2nd hand - NOT from the dealer, who described their availability as akin to hens teeth.

Like tonym I have thought a number of times of changing, and for exactly the reasons he has done so: HDMI switching; reduced box count; and DLNA.

M

Mr Underhill,

I agree that the DVD5 had more issues, but I still stand by my comments about the AV2.

I would certainly characterise Naim's attitide to A/V as abandonment, because they have abandoned it by dropping all the A/V products from the range! I don't blame them for doing this, indeed it was a shrewd businesss move IMO. As a tiny company they didn't stand a chance in keeping up with the big giants like Sony, Pioneer etc., such is the rate of change in the technology and the expectations of the market as you say. I believe that their foray into A/V was a brave but misguided one and thankfully for themselves they decided to cut their losses and move on.

As for support I can only go by my own experience. As a very long standing Naim user and supporter (25 years) I felt badly let-down by the products and the level of support offered on technical issues, of which there were many. The whole experience seemed very "un-Naim like". 

I am not a Naim-basher despite my criticisms. Although I can no loger afford it I have the greatest admiration for their music products. Their ability to produce magnificently communicative audio products is without question. The reservations I have is in their computer software engineering not in the analogue areas. It is interesting that you note that much of the R&D work done for A/V has found a home in the streaming products. One only has to peruse the streaming forum to see that there are many issues, not entirely unlike those with the A/V products of yesterday.

Peter

Being an owner of both the AV2 and a DVD5 from when they were released, I have to disagree about the level of support offered by Naim. Yes, both products had a number of software issues at the start, but all I can do is commend Naims support of the products.

Having spoken to them directly over that time, I can understand where some of their challenges had arisen and can only thank them for the help that they had provided to me.

I moved the DVD5 on a couple of years ago, before the second hand prices really started to dive and I still have the AV2 today.

I have considered changing the AV2, but for my requirements, Sky on DD, BluRay on full rate DTS I think I could spend a reasonable amount of money and end up with perhaps something different, but no better.

I'd like to see an entry to market of an equivilant of the Audiolab 8200 device and if that appeared, I'd be first in the queue to buy one. But, I suspect if you look at simple business cases of where to spend your R&D investement and potential returns, that I may be waiting a while.

Which, is a shame as it is one of those standout items of high-fi kit that has come out over the years.

Roy.

Thanks for the input everyone.   After some careful thought, I've decided against the AV2.   As mentioned, I remember the AV2 as being a finicky device when I originally owned it and now clearly remember having to reset the device on multiple occassions in order to get it to work properly.  It DID sound great when it worked though.

The cost of the AV2 available locally is rather cheap since no one seems interested in purchasing it however given that I would need to purchase a proper HDMI scaler such as a DVDO Edge for my transcoding and switching needs, not to mention a set of specialty cables to connect the AV2 up to my existing non-naim amplification until I could afford a Nap175 and a pair of Nap150s, that AV2 looks to be less and less a bargain and in fact a rather pricey proposition.  IF I already owned the Naim amplification and the scaler, then the AV2 would have been a no brainer to at least try out again at home and sell on if not deemed suitable.

In the end, I decided to take a chance on a NAD T175 that I found locally as well for the same price of the AV2.  I am assured that all the HDMI issues that plagued the NAD175 in the early days have been rectified on this unit and so will spend this evening hooking it up, running the room correction and see how it compares to my Pioneer Elite SC-05.

Cheers everyone.

Proud,

I think you have made a very wise decision. In the context of a system using non-Naim amplification the AV2 makes even less sense. For sure the AV2 does sound great when it works properly (though not to the tune of around £2.5K when new IMO) but as you say you have owned one before with less than entirely satisfactory results. All the more reason to take a leaf out of Naim's book and move on - once bitten and all that....

Best of luck with the NAD.

Peter

No problems PD.

Let us know how you get on with the sound esp regarding the issues you raised about voices reproduction. Always good to know what else is out there should my AV2 go - BANG! Haha!

Cheers,

Rack.

Thought I would update everyone on this thread with regards to my experience with the NAD T175.  I've used it for a little over a week now and have to say I am mighty pleased with how it sounds.   I am not a fan of room correction schemes and as such have Audyssey turned "OFF" but the detail and envolpment that the NAD T175 presents is very very good.   It is a very large upgrade over the Pioneer SC-05 that I was previously using, especially with regards to voices and small detail retreival.  The soundfield remains coherent even with volume levels cranked but remains completely enveloping when volume levels are turned down low.

My version of the T175 lacks internal decoding of the latest Hi-Def audio CODECS but accepts them as uncompressed LPCM from my Dune HD D1 and Bluray players without issue.

The only issue that I would have is that I can hear the relays clicking whenever a new or different audio stream is detected or if I switch inputs but the sound does not bother me so I guess it really isn't an issue afterall.

The DAC within the T175 is of very good quality and steaming AIFF music from my Apple TV sound surprisingly good.  It is only a few notches down from my using my dedicated integrated amp and LINN DS so serves quite nicely when I don't feel like switching to that particular setup.

All in all, I am well pleased with the purchase and would recommend it to those who are looking for a pre pro with HDMI audio capability.

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Glad it has worked out.

M