Keeping audio data local on bridged network?

James I would propose using a small switch in the listening room, connecting the switch to the router and connecting the ND5 and the NAS to the switch.  I believe (and others who know more about networking will agree or disagree) that the switch will handle the traffic between the NAS and the ND5 and not 'send it downstairs'

The router in the listening room may well have a switch built into it, (my guess is that it does if it provides for multiple ethernet connections), but for a small sum ($20 here in the States) a high quality 4-port switch may do a better job for you.

Thanks guys, actually I wouldn't be averse to running a local gigabit switch, if nothing else should  give me a faster throughput for actual audio streams (I guess?) and they're very cheap for even good brands, I've noticed...

A quick thought though, how will I actually *know* if the audio stream from the NAS is being kept local on the ethernet wired network or being streamed wirelessly downstairs? I know that sounds silly but it just occurred to me I have no idea how to actually check... 

Not a silly question at all, IMV, especially if the wireless leg is less than perfect.

Kind of quiet out there.  Regardless of what we do not know, it is probably sensible to assume that a dedicated subnet for the NDx and NAS removes doubt, especially if sound quality and/or reliability are obviously affected.  I can attest that my entirely copper, bridged network, using wireless only for control, is sometimes challenged to allocate the most bandwidth where it should be, adversely impacting performance.

I, myself, find it laughably difficult to allocate 1-10% of my total audio equipment budget to network infrastructure equipment and consulting.  I know I am wrong, but believe I am far from alone in this error.

Sincerely, and in sympathy,

Nick

James, I will try  and help. A switche specifically switches network frames between its source and destination ports. Therefore if the NAS/uPNP are on one port or seperated over two ports and the network player is another port on the *same* switch, then the network frames are only going to pass between those ports on the switch. If you add a wireless bridge to your switch to connect to your Internet router and say the rest of your LAN, then the only data that goes across that port and link is data from your network player, NAS, upnp server to other devices on your network such as your Internet router(web radio), ripper etc.

But the important  audio data  transfer from your NAS to UPNP server to Network player will be between the ports on your local switch. (there are special, usually low amount of frames that are sent on all ports, these being broadcast and in consumer kit, multicast frames, but we will ignore these as this is not relevant to your audio data)

This is one of the key advantages of switches over hubs, and it allows a more efficient network utilisation.

Hope that helps

Simon

Thanks Simon, tbh some of that went over my head, but if I've interpreted right- basically if I get a little wired switch, which I then plug the NAS and/or UPnP server (my NAS has UPnP built in, I think), the ND5XS, and the router into that for wireless bridging to the main router downstairs, I should be fine. I.e. the switch will route the data wired between the NAS and ND5XS locally and only direct or ask for data wirelessly if it needs it to/from the internet?

If it is that simple, that's great! I'll go out and get a little wired gigabit internet switch

Yes - you have it. Go get a Gigabit *Ethernet* switch.

FWIW in network parlence the switch 'switches' data frames on your network or LAN between  the correct devices on your LAN. A router routes data packets between different networks such as the internet and your LAN. (underneath the covers they do very different things), ie the data is going to or from a device that is not on your LAN.

cheers

Simon

James, the folder structure of the NAS can be  kind of irrelevant. It's the upnp server software that structures the tracks into albums etc. it's also the upnp server that sends the album art to the network player. Some upnp servers can either recover an embedded album art within the WAV file (stred as an ID3 RIFF chunk)or recover the art stored in the album directory on the NAS (here yes you need to albums in their own folders) as folder.jpg. I personally use the folder method, and don't store album art in my media files. 

 No problem. Its definitely the case that upnp servers are not equal!! I use Asset, quite popular with users on this forum

It can transcode, you can create your  index structures and have control over how arist info is displayed. 

Sooo, I structure all content on my NAS  into their own album directories. In each album directory is a file called folder.jpg which is the album art.

Other than that the Asset upnp server does all the rest of the work.

Simon

Thanks Simon, so are you having to run a PC/Mac on that network to act as the UPnP server, then? I was hoping to run the little audio-only network without a computer, just the NAS, a switch and wireless bridge (plus the ND5 XS of course!) but will this not give me the flexibility in terms of tagging, etc.? Perhaps now I'm understanding the true value of a UnitiServe...?

James, don't fret too much.  You'll be able to tag and then stream your music using a server on your NAS. It might not be AS flexible as Asset running on a pc (or now apparently mac), but it'll get you up and running and listening to all of your music.  If you really can't stand how it works, it'll give you a project for the future.  There definitely are advantages to starting with something more 'basic,' learning the features you really want, and then shopping for a 2nd gen that does just what you're missing. 

The UnitiServe I suspect is not the end-all in this situation.  I have not yet used it in UnPnP server mode (my NDS arrives next week), but I believe that it does not offer the wide range of options and variables that Asset does. 

And as you'll read here, other folks are totally "addicted" to iTunes and only want to use it because of the way it allows them to organize their music. Others despise iTunes.  It's truly horses for courses with this stuff.  Again, don't fret!

James, yes I wouldn't fret - it really is all very straightforward and to be honest if you use wired ethernet and a little switch it is very hard to go wrong - as streaming etc is rather trvial on a network.

I run Asset on a little micro PC running WHS  - the size of a book - and it requires no screen or keyboard etc -its all controlled remotely if you should need to - its kind run and forget - and only thing I need to remember is if there is a power outage is to switch it back on again

I preferred Asset as it gave me the flexibility I preferred in terms of custom search folders, search options and custom tags as well as transcoding rules for different network player. I have some wireless players scattered around that I transcode to MP3 and i ensure my Naim is WAV, but my music collection is avaialble which ever way I want to listen to it via the Assett upnp server.

BTW if you use the Unitiserve it still prefers a link to the internet for retreiving meta data when you are ripping

Simon

> Do I have to run a PC or Mac switched on full-time to run Asset, btw?

James I would not use Asset on a Mac yet, as it is only a beta version and limited ... if you want to use a Mac then I recommend Playback. I hope the production version of Asset is the full system. Though in fairness on a Mac you just need a UPnP server that has the potential to transcode to WAV for Naim streamers. iTunes will organise all your music folders and tags. XLD will rip and handle format changes (WAV-to-FLAC-to-ALAC-to-AIFF-to-WAV and round and round if you want or AAC for your iPad/Pod or MP3 for other portable music players). 

However, if you are not a Mac user like me then this is of little relevance. Personally I do not use Microsoft products owing to very bad experience I had with them: though I have to admit they are not quite as unpleasant to deal with as they once were - perhaps changes at the top have helped. [What have they got against delegates wearing red hats, anyway?]. 

Outside of the Apple world, the Vortexbox remains my favourite NAS/UPnP server. You need a dedicated PC or server to run it though and it uses FLAC by default. The Vortexbox rips CDs, stores these as FLAC and serves the music files to any Naim streamer and works with nStream. A Vortexbox does not require a screen or keyboard and has no Windows or Mac software on it at all - so it can't double as a word processor. It's great selling point is that it is free (F-R-double E) - well the software is and you can choose the hardware to suit your exact needs including building (or getting a VB supplier if you prefer) to make a silent one with SSDs. 

In my view the UnitiServe has the potential to be the best way to serve to UPnP, but it still has a way to go to achieve this lofted status. The US scores in that it has a Naim logo, which means you get incredible support from Phil and his team. It is clever in that it aggregates distributed music sources and presents them to you as one unified music collection (Sonos like). Naim is trying to rival Meridian in ease of use (check out the Sooloos) and nStream is improving all the time - nServe is reportedly very good, perhaps Naim will have a unified app in a future release. 

If your Iomega has a UPnP server included then it should work fine - moving your data to a different NAS is easy enough if you decide you need to. 

> As you'll read here, other folks are totally "addicted" to iTunes and only want to use it because of the way it allows them to organize their music. Others despise iTunes.

I'm not addicted to iTunes, but it does provide a great way to organise music and if you use a Mac Mini/Naim DAC + 555PS as I do, then it works in tandem with Apple Remote to do everything I could reasonably want. I've tried a few other playing options on the Mac Mini, but I can't hear any significant difference. I do use the Bit Perfect app, as iTunes annoyingly upsamples rather than uses the original rate. Bit Perfect sorts this out. It also enables memory replay which reduces noise. 

All the best, Guy

James - -enjoy!

This is NOT how to do a backup for the uServe, however.  Good idea, but forget it   What you want to do is use the backup utility built into the uServe and have it backup its internal HDD to your NAS.  That is a standard feature built into the uServe software.  That will permit you to recover if there is a hdd failure of the uServe.

Then IMHO you should also have a plan to backup your NAS.  I backup mine to an attached usb hard drive.

Best,

Bart

You are welcome James -- I am just passing on what I learned here months ago as I purchased the uServe etc.  Happy to help!