Another Volvo?

Posted by: George Fredrik on 24 October 2012

This is the last photo of my by then twenty one year old Volvo 240 DL, which I had owned for eleven years at the time, and done a remarkably small mileage on!

 

 

I am wondering whether to get another of type [and similar chassis], but much older, as this simplifies maintenance  All you need is a feel for it, a set of spanners, some good screw drivers, and some metric Allen Keys, to keep such a motor completely smooth and reliable. Oh and some basics like a good supply of ignition components, which are blessedly cheap.

 

Here is what I have in mind. an Amazon!

 

 

Obviously not a very cheap motor on petrol as it would be only about two thirds as good the 240, but ultra cheap on insurance, and zero rated on Road Fund Tax, as well as being rewarding to drive and use!

 

And a car that would be strong enough to drive to Norway or Poland without fear of melt-down ...

 

ATB from George

 

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Arfur Oddsocks

I would! Those Amazon's are lovely.

 

* Arfur stares into space remembering the days when cars were all lovely and instantly recognisable, sighs*

 

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by George Fredrik

It would be my third one, and considering the family car in the 1970s [a 145 Station Wagon] the fourth I would have used.

 

ATB from George

 

PS: Arthur, I think the Amazon has a surface beauty only matched by its mechanical excellence!

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Don Atkinson

IGeorge,

 

 worked in Sweden for a while in 1967 and felt that Volvos were remarkably robust and reliable - they needed to be on those gravel roads.

 

If it weren't for the fact that I still have a Mercedes 124 230TE Estate that is still running very well despite its 23 years (17 with me - or rather Mrs D) I would certainly be considering a Volvo and as you say, older vehicles are DIY maintainable without the need for a computer and £1,000 + ECUs.

 

Hope you find what you are looking for

 

Cheers

 

Don 

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Cbr600
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:

IGeorge,

 

 worked in Sweden for a while in 1967 and felt that Volvos were remarkably robust and reliable - they needed to be on those gravel roads.

 

If it weren't for the fact that I still have a Mercedes 124 230TE Estate that is still running very well despite its 23 years (17 with me - or rather Mrs D) I would certainly be considering a Volvo and as you say, older vehicles are DIY maintainable without the need for a computer and £1,000 + ECUs.

 

Hope you find what you are looking for

 

Cheers

 

Don 

Lovely looking car, but can't help thinking of "rose tinted glasses". Many purchasers of old classics quickly realise these cars are from another era. Heaters that don't work, wipers that are poor, bad suspension design, etc. you need a real love to use one on a regular basis rather than as a Sunday run about. iMO

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by George Fredrik
Originally Posted by Cbr600:

Lovely looking car, but can't help thinking of "rose tinted glasses". Many purchasers of old classics quickly realise these cars are from another era. Heaters that don't work, wipers that are poor, bad suspension design, etc. you need a real love to use one on a regular basis rather than as a Sunday run about. iMO

In the last four years with the 240 I managed less than 6000 miles. But she did very well when brought out from slumber.

 

The Amazon was and still is a car capable of being rallied about, and is a safe car from the handling point of view even today. The characteristic is either of gentle under steer or having enough power for a controlled over-steer.

 

The brakes were top flight British Girling, though rear drums or earlier versions are not quite as good as four discs.

 

The steering is seriously heavy by modern standards, but I grew up with farm tractors that were monstrously heavy. I like the direct feel of countering the camber, rather than fighting the light and vague back-lash which is inevitable in power steering. In normal under steer mode you start the bend early, get the lean into the suspension  and then hit the throttle if you want to corner fast. They do lean into the job, but rarely actually break out! The 240 suffered from vague power steering, which made motorway work an act of continuous concentration at 70 mph! The Amazon is a car that in normal guise is actually not happy at more than 70!

 

I drive like a grand dad in any case, and the car owuld suit me. I love tinkering, and tuned a Mini Pick-up [same ignition and carburetta type  - usually on the Volvo, SU or Stromberg] so that I managed 60 mpg back in 1979 on the Mini. No doubt the Volvo engine could be persuaded to yield a bit better than 30 mpg for the few [if very long] journeys I would make in it. It would never become a commuter transport ...

 

The brakes, ventilation, and wipers were designed for ghastly winter conditions of Scandinavia, so in milder Britain today are still not a disaster!

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Gale 401

George,

I used to get a lift to and from school in Sevenoaks in a blue one of those Volvo's in 1966/7/8 a few times a week.

Also in a silver and blue Rolls Silver Cloud.

 

The cloud died many years before the Volvo.

Stu.

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by George Fredrik

Dear Stu,

 

Half of all Amazons are still road-worthy. Not a bad record. Nobody scraps an Amazon!

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Gale 401

The Volvo was still running on the road in the late 80s and was sold with a MOT.

The Cloud ended up as a fun car to drive round a field,

I think we even used to put Diesel in it.

Or at least very very cheap petrol. 

Stu.

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by George Fredrik:

 

 

 

 

Don't do it, George.

 

And what is with the goofy English habit of parking on the wrong side of the road (as illustrated by at least one of the cars in this picture)? I've never seen it anywhere else in the world.

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by Hook

Why not get another 240?  Maybe the estate this time around?  Even the ones made in the late 70's and early 80's were still pretty easy to work on. Good luck George. 

 

Hook

 

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by JeremyB

Re: And what is with the goofy English habit of parking on the wrong side of the road (as illustrated by at least one of the cars in this picture)? I've never seen it anywhere else in the world.

 

Winky LMFAO! My first ever week in the US I found a ticket in LA when I got back to my rental car after a day's work. The citation was "driving on the wrong side of the highway" so considering it was only a parking ticket I got off lightly.

 

Peace and love.

Posted on: 24 October 2012 by George Fredrik

It's only an idea for next year, but I'll investigate the options when the time comes!

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Cbr600
Originally Posted by George Fredrik:
Originally Posted by Cbr600:

Lovely looking car, but can't help thinking of "rose tinted glasses". Many purchasers of old classics quickly realise these cars are from another era. Heaters that don't work, wipers that are poor, bad suspension design, etc. you need a real love to use one on a regular basis rather than as a Sunday run about. iMO

In the last four years with the 240 I managed less than 6000 miles. But she did very well when brought out from slumber.

 

The Amazon was and still is a car capable of being rallied about, and is a safe car from the handling point of view even today. The characteristic is either of gentle under steer or having enough power for a controlled over-steer.

 

The brakes were top flight British Girling, though rear drums or earlier versions are not quite as good as four discs.

 

The steering is seriously heavy by modern standards, but I grew up with farm tractors that were monstrously heavy. I like the direct feel of countering the camber, rather than fighting the light and vague back-lash which is inevitable in power steering. In normal under steer mode you start the bend early, get the lean into the suspension  and then hit the throttle if you want to corner fast. They do lean into the job, but rarely actually break out! The 240 suffered from vague power steering, which made motorway work an act of continuous concentration at 70 mph! The Amazon is a car that in normal guise is actually not happy at more than 70!

 

I drive like a grand dad in any case, and the car owuld suit me. I love tinkering, and tuned a Mini Pick-up [same ignition and carburetta type  - usually on the Volvo, SU or Stromberg] so that I managed 60 mpg back in 1979 on the Mini. No doubt the Volvo engine could be persuaded to yield a bit better than 30 mpg for the few [if very long] journeys I would make in it. It would never become a commuter transport ...

 

The brakes, ventilation, and wipers were designed for ghastly winter conditions of Scandinavia, so in milder Britain today are still not a disaster!

 

ATB from George

George,

    you write with a warm glow about you, so you clearly have the right temperament for this project, good luck and happy tinkering

paul

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Cbr600

The other car worth thinking about was the one used on the TV show the saint, with roger moore, was it a P60 or a P something, something like that?

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by BigH47

P 1800.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_P1800

 

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Richard Dane

George,

 

being a bona fide classic and also eligible for some historic events, the Amazon is no longer such a cheap and practical classic car.  You may get lucky, but alternatively an Amazon that needs work could turn into a frustrating money pit.

 

A Swedish alternative that is on the cusp of becoming a classic car is the Saab 99/900.  The original 99 Turbo is already there and prices have risen accordingly.  However, the 900 is still accessible.  The best examples are rising in price but there are still plenty around for reasonable money. 

 

A few interesting facts about the 99/900;

 

It was substantially handmade.  Saab most likely lost money on every one.  The bonnet alone took more time to make than the entire car of its successor, the GM based 900.

 

The shell was made so strong, it didn't require a rollcage for some competitions.

 

Despite an effective marketing campaign, the Saab 99/900 shared nothing with the Saab fighter aircraft (but it's easy to convince yourself otherwise from behind the wheel)...

 

I still miss my own 900 S16 Aero.  It had great character (and I mean that in a good way - not the broken down on the hard shoulder on a rainy evening kind of character) was immensely comfortable for my tall frame, covered a huge mileage without issue (when I sold mine it had done 275,000 miles and  the local Saab dealership said it was still "running in"), and could swallow enormous loads with ease.  The looks are a wonderful combination of weird, ugly and beautiful.  I still get pangs whenever I see one on the road.

 

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Cbr600
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

George,

 

being a bona fide classic and also eligible for some historic events, the Amazon is no longer such a cheap and practical classic car.  You may get lucky, but alternatively an Amazon that needs work could turn into a frustrating money pit.

 

A Swedish alternative that is on the cusp of becoming a classic car is the Saab 99/900.  The original 99 Turbo is already there and prices have risen accordingly.  However, the 900 is still accessible.  The best examples are rising in price but there are still plenty around for reasonable money. 

 

A few interesting facts about the 99/900;

 

It was substantially handmade.  Saab most likely lost money on every one.  The bonnet alone took more time to make than the entire car of its successor, the GM based 900.

 

The shell was made so strong, it didn't require a rollcage for some competitions.

 

Despite an effective marketing campaign, the Saab 99/900 shared nothing with the Saab fighter aircraft (but it's easy to convince yourself otherwise from behind the wheel)...

 

I still miss my own 900 S16 Aero.  It had great character (and I mean that in a good way - not the broken down on the hard shoulder on a rainy evening kind of character) was immensely comfortable for my tall frame, covered a huge mileage without issue (when I sold mine it had done 275,000 miles and  the local Saab dealership said it was still "running in"), and could swallow enormous loads with ease.  The looks are a wonderful combination of weird, ugly and beautiful.  I still get pangs whenever I see one on the road.

 

Richard, i am with you on this one. The Saab 99 / 900 is a beauty and has become iconic in its own lifetime.

It is generally considered as an "architects car", as this group of people appreciate the form of the design

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Dungassin
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by George Fredrik:

 

 

 

 

Don't do it, George.

 

And what is with the goofy English habit of parking on the wrong side of the road (as illustrated by at least one of the cars in this picture)? I've never seen it anywhere else in the world.

Might be something to do with not creating a slalom course for other drivers?  Our roads are often narrow, and parking on both sides, as some inconsiderate people do, creates problems - especially for buses and the like.

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Guido Fawkes
 
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

A few interesting facts about the 99/900;

 

It was substantially handmade.  Saab most likely lost money on every one.  The bonnet alone took more time to make than the entire car of its successor, the GM based 900.

 

The shell was made so strong, it didn't require a rollcage for some competitions.

 

Despite an effective marketing campaign, the Saab 99/900 shared nothing with the Saab fighter aircraft (but it's easy to convince yourself otherwise from behind the wheel)...

 

I still miss my own 900 S16 Aero.  It had great character (and I mean that in a good way - not the broken down on the hard shoulder on a rainy evening kind of character) was immensely comfortable for my tall frame, covered a huge mileage without issue (when I sold mine it had done 275,000 miles and  the local Saab dealership said it was still "running in"), and could swallow enormous loads with ease.  The looks are a wonderful combination of weird, ugly and beautiful.  I still get pangs whenever I see one on the road.

I used to own one of those, Richard, it was a very good car and had very comfortable seats, 

 

Are Volvo still Swedish or PRC? SAAB seems to vanished?  

 

Another car I had which somebody bough from me after 80,000 miles and it went on to do 300,000 was a Subaru - not the WRX one, the entry level one, the Nait 5i of Imprezae (is that the correct plural).  It was built very well, not as comfortable as a SAAB, but extremely reliable. 

 

Mind you I know nothing about cars and all this talk of spanners (who I thought was a character from an alternative universe in Red Dwarf) scares me. I call a service engineer to empty the sweet papers out of the ash tray. 

 

All the best, Guy 

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by Guido Fawkes

 

Dear George, 

 

What about this Volvo - one careful driver apparently

 

All the best, Guy 

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Dungassin:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by George Fredrik:

 

 

 

 

Don't do it, George.

 

And what is with the goofy English habit of parking on the wrong side of the road (as illustrated by at least one of the cars in this picture)? I've never seen it anywhere else in the world.

Might be something to do with not creating a slalom course for other drivers?  Our roads are often narrow, and parking on both sides, as some inconsiderate people do, creates problems - especially for buses and the like.

No, I mean parking facing the oncoming traffic. It happens an all sorts of streets. Having one side of the street as "no parking" doesn't force anyone to park facing the wrong way - they just have to turn around. Like I said, the UK (England specifically) is the only place I have ever seen this wrong-way parking accepted as common practice.

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by George Fredrik
Originally Posted by Cb600

George,

    you write with a warm glow about you, so you clearly have the right temperament for this project, good luck and happy tinkering

paul

Dear Paul,

 

I have an affectionate and tolerant sense towards well engineered items of their time, be it today or fifty or one hundred years ago. 

 

My old Carlton cycle is a case in point. Most people find the vague, but ultra smooth and silent, but technically completely out of date for their time, 1970s Campagnolo New Record derailuers impossible to use, and yet I manage them as well as I would the impossible to get wrong modern "indexed" Shimano type. 

 

With a bit of finesse I can shift gears silently, and have not lost a chain in years, and yet get it wrong and the chain can come off with the greatest of ease!

 

Likewise my favourite of three pocket watches [two spoken for as gifts to my nephew and niece] is an 1880 large pattern Ludgate movement Benson. It is inherently stable as to time keeping, and can be regulated to about a minute a month! That is at least as good as the high end modern mechanical watches, and we do have to radio to check in any case!

 

I love these old things.

 

A Seiko watch, a carbon cycle, and even a perfectly boring modern car, carry no interest for me! But something simple like a nicely made wood framed window is pleasing to me from new!

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 25 October 2012 by George Fredrik

Dear Guy,

 

The P1800 is far too sexy for me!

 

Plus, were on Earth would I put the Carlton, if driving on the ferry to Norway or Poland?

 

I love it,; like I love the Jaguar XK 120, loved and admired from afar!

 

ATB from George