For the bike nerds...

Couldn't have put it better myself. Agree totally with all the above.

I spend a decent part of my working life dealing with the consequences of cycling accidents, but I still ride a lot myself. The risk simply cannot be dissociated from the activity. 

Why on earth should this apply only to drivers? Moreover, why should it only apply when one hits a pedestrian or cyclist? The fact that a collision is between vehicles does not mean that it is not and cannot be catastrophic. Arguably, failing to see a (much larger) vehicle is in broad terms far more culpable.

In any event, carelessness (because that's what we are talking about) can and does manifest itself in circumstances other than on the road and result in significant injury. What about a builder who drops a brick on a colleague and injuries him. Should he be prevented from working on a building site again? 

Most of it is common sense, by drivers, pedestrians and cyclists. Cycle lanes are not a solution - it just seems to encourage some cyclists to feel that they can be on the wrong side of the road. Well, that's my experience as a cyclist in some big continental European cities.

The issue requires policing at a consistent standard. Cyclists that jump lights, cycle without any lighting once it is dark or on the wrong side of the road should receive the same treatment as drivers. Similarly, drivers but it doesn't really help that they can escape more quickly. I was almost t-boned by a car, but by being aware and with a combination of swerving and the depositing of significant rubber on the road there was no incident. The young female driver smiled, waved and drove off followed by some quaint Anglo Saxon expressionism on my part.

A big part of the problem is that many drivers just don't appreciate how fast some cyclists are travelling. They assume you are just dawdling along when you are actually at 20+ mph. If they can't figure it out with motor vehicles approaching how the hell are they going to get it right with a cyclist?

As far as lighting goes, there's nothing wrong with a hub dynamo if you're an average or larger than average size. I have just fitted a SON dynamo to my steel road bike as it saves me faffing around with batteries. The extra weight of the hub and increased rolling resistance are the least of my worries - it might be different on a carbon featherweight and if I weighed < 70 kg (but those days are a very, very long time ago  .)

Huwge

As a cyclist I don't disagree that too many cyclists are a pain and don't follow the highway code. I get cheesed off in london when those on Boris Bikes seem to ignore other cyclists and just turn accross them, etc.

However re lights: they need to stay on (or flash!) all the time and hub dynamos have a habit of stopping when you stop!

Bruce, I am impressed you are doing 40mph. That just scares the hell out of me now, much to the amusement of my cycling colleagues who wait for me at the bottom of the hills!

Road users just need to respect each other a bit more rather than assuming each has a godgiven right to being there. Cyclists and motorists. (Actually if we all just did that about all things in life, it would probably be a nicer place!) . I am sure that most cyclists are also drivers. It shouldn't be too difficult!

I completely agree with Bruce that cyclists need to own their own safety. Like him I am a cautious rider because of this.

However, in the more general picture any implication it is a shared unfortunate circumstance for drivers and cyclists is not borne out by the figures. 104 cyclists killed in the UK so far this year, of which 91 due to collision with a vehicle.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/...y/article3313260.ece

The number of motorists killed due to collision with a cycle? I am guessing maybe one but probably none.

In the face of a surge in obesity and other health issues, if we are to encourage a healthier nation and move away from the culture of 'why shouldn't I drive 5 mins to the local shop' then we need to change the level of protection afforded to cycling. It can be an inexpensive pursuit for people and they have to get to/from work but why should they risk death doing so?

Despite being a driver myself I am not going to shed any crocodile tears for drivers. They moan about cyclists but a lot of said moaning is because the driver got stuck behind the cyclist at lights or had to wait for overtaking and there is utter impatience with this. You never hear 'I nearly died because a cyclist did this...'

In the UK, the fact is you can go on almost any thoroughfare at almost any time of the day and witness multiple examples of speeding, undertaking, talking on mobiles, aggression and bad judgement from drivers. The talk of policing in the context of cyclist jumping the lights is besides the point. How many die as a result of the occasional cyclist jumping a light? None. The real problem is with motorists and this is because many motorists feel they have a god-given right to drive anywhere, whenever they want and however they like. This is the 'Top Gear' culture of yesteryear. The same type of culture that used to see a few sherberts at a pub lunch before an afternoon drive as acceptable.

I know people in their 20's and 30's who can't walk to the shop (despite being able-bodied) and won't ever use public transport (as they don't like travelling with other people no less!). Whilst these approaches remain, there will also be too many cars on the road. Where I live in London there are houses with two 4x4's outside and yet we have one of the best public transport systems on the planet. If motorists want more space on the road, perhaps they might act responsibly and (shock, horror) use their cars less?

Back to bikes, if you want to encourage broad use then you have to have separated cycle lanes as per the Dutch model. Until then it will remain the preserve of the foolhardy or brave.

2012....104 dead cyclists so far in the UK. Think of the families.

I am seeing a lot of deaths caused by dangerous driving. Also hit-and-runs and situations where the police are appealing for witnesses. I am not seeing any deaths which appear to be caused by cyclist jumping lights - the familiar refrain of the 'driving is our right' lobby.

Nov 4 - A 67-year-old man was killed in a crash with a car as he cycled round a roundabout in Didcot. The 24-year-old woman driving the car was unhurt.

Nov 2 - Adam Bennett, 41, was hit in a collision with a van as he cycled in Bruntingthorpe in Leicestershire. He died in hospital five days later. The 68-year-old van driver was arrested and released on bail.

Nov 2 - Robert Chaplin, 56, was run over by a tipper trick in Cheltenham. He died two days later in hospital, having suffered leg, hip and pelvis injuries. The driver of the truck was uninjured.

Nov 1 - Sam Sloan, 75, was killed while cycling in a crash with a car on Mahon Road in Portadown in Northern Ireland. The woman driving the car was treated for shock at the scene.

Oct 29 - Sofoklis Kostoulas, 32, died in hospital more than a week after being hit by a lorry in Bethnal Green in East London.

Oct 26* - Stan Coates, 55, from Sunderland was killed while out cycling in Burdon Lane in Sunderland. He was involved in an initial collision and was exchanging details with the driver of a Vauxhall Corsa when he was struck by another car, also a Vauxhall Corsa, in a collision that killed him.

Oct 21 - Brent Jelley, 23, was killed in a crash with a car in Sible Hedingham near Braintree. The driver of the Ford Fiesta was a 20-year-old man from the Halstead area.

Oct 17 - John Searle, 59, was killed in a crash between several vehicles on the B4368 Corvedale Road in Shropshire. He died at the scene and another man, who is thought to have been trying to help him, was seriously injured. Police are investigating.

Oct 16 - Jay O’Malley, 33, was killed on his bike in Birmingham when he was turning right from Bristol Road onto Belgrave Middleway towards Digbeth when he was struck by a silver Rover 75. He died in hospital the next day. Police are appealing for witnesses.

Oct 16 - Hilary Lee, 66, was killed when she was struck by a skip lorry on the High Street in High Barnet. She was pronounced dead at the scene.The driver of the lorry was arrested on suspicioun of causing death by dangerous driving.

Oct 12 - Ken Wise, 58, was pronounced dead on McMullen Road in Darlington at the scene of a crash between his bicycle and a Kia Picanto, driven by a 23-year-old woman.

Oct 7 - Julian ‘Jules’ Evans, 51, was killed in a crash with a car on Newmarket Road in Risby in Suffolk. Police are investigating the crash between Mr Evans’s bike and a red Nissan Micra.

Oct 5 - Paul Kemsley, 54, died following a crash with a Daihatsu van on the A30 between Hayle and Tolvaddon. He died two days later.

Sep 29 - Keegan Crawford, 17, died from his injuries following a crash with a Ford Fiesta at a junction in Penshaw in Sunderland. The driver of the car was not hurt.

Sep 29 - Thomas Anderson, 48, from Torpichen, was killed after falling from his bike while riding with his cycling club. It is not believed any other vehicle was involved, though police are investigating the circumstances.

Sep 27 - John Barr, 64, was taken to hospital with serious leg, head and pelvic injuries after a crash with a Honda Civic on the B709 between Traquair and Innerleithen. He died two weeks later.

Sep 16 - Anthony Hilson, 46, from Reading died after a collision with a Honda Accord car driven by a 37-year-old woman, who was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

Sep 16 - Andrew Dixon, 46, died three days after suffering serious head injuries in a crash with a black Toyota Aygo at a roundabout in Chertsey. The female driver of the car was not injured.

Sep 15 - Graham Hughes, 56, from Strood was killed in what police believe to be a collision with a lorry on the A228 Snodland bypass. Police are appealing for witnesses.

Sep 14 - Timothy Osborn, 27, of Spalding, was found dead by the roadside by his mother after he failed to come home from work. Police believe a silver Renault Trafic, Vauxhall Vivaro or Nissan Primastar van may have been involved and are appealing for witnesses. A 41-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving, failing to stop at the scene of an accident, and failing to report an accident.

Sep 10 - Andrew Watson, 40, was killed in a crash near Doncaster with a black Range Rover Sport driven by a 21-year-old man from Epworth. Police are investigating.

Sep 9 - Jeffrey Townley, 12, was killed in a crash with a Peugeot van while cycling in Hucknall. He is the second pupil from the National School in Hucknall to be killed on his bike in three months.

Sep 6 - Peter Reekie, 37, was killed in Walton on Merseyside in a crash with a motorbike driven by a 22-year-old man, who has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

Sep 6 - Samuel Joe Brown, 15, was killed on his bike near Goole in Yorkshire after being hit by an Audi car being driven by a 67-year-old local woman. The driver was arrested and a second 15-year-old boy was treated for a shoulder injury.

Sep 5 - Gordon Butler, 76, was a member of Hereford Wheelers cycling club and was found by the side of the B4350 in Powys after a report of a man coming off his bike. He was pronounced dead in hospital.

Sep 5 - Benjamin Hydes, 21, was killed when he was hit by a Ford Transit van driven by a 31-year-old man in Doncaster. Police are calling for witnesses.

Sep 5 - Robert Cherry, 79, died after a collision with a skip lorry in Walton in Surrey. He died of head injuries later in hospital.

Sep 5* - Delaney Brown, 19, was killed in a hit-and-run in Luton by a stolen silver BMW car. A 18-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of murder for what Bedforshire Police said was a “deliberate and unnecessary act”.

Sep 3 - Robert Tyler, 62, from Bishopsfield was killed in Harlow after a crash with a blue Vauxhall Corsa, driven by a 31-year-old woman. She was uninjured and arrested.

Sep 2 - Matthew Hamilton, 15, was killed when he crashed into the back of a car in Carlisle. He died later in hospital. Police are appealing for witnesses.

Aug 24 - James Cresswell, 19, known as Jimmy, was killed when he was struck by a single decker bus while riding his bike in Wolverhampton. He died the next morning in hospital. The driver of the bus was not arrested.

Aug 22 - Natasha Chhina-Beverley, 21, from Howden, died when she fell and struck her head while cycling on the pavement in North Tyneside. A bus had been passing at the time and police would like to speak to passengers who may have witnessed the incident.

Aug 18 - Len Grayson, 75, was killed while taking part in a road race on the A19 in a crash with an Alfa Romeo car. The 29-year-old car driver was taken to hospital.

Aug 13 - Stephen Vanhinsbergh, 57, from Ramsgate was killed in a crash with a small lorry on the London-bound carriageway of the A299 near Herne Bay in Kent.

Aug 11 - David Lingwood, 52, from Caergwrle was found on the roadside under a railway bridge in Gresford. North Wales Police are calling for anyone who may have witnessed a collision with a car.

Aug 10 - Anthony Phillips, 18, from Bromsgrove was killed after a woman in her 50s mounted the pavement in her Kia Picanto and collided with his BMX bike in Droitwich. He died the next day. The driver was arrested and released on bail.

Aug 8 - Andrew Leonard Chick, 40, from Newport died after a crash with a black Volkswagen car on the SDR bridge in Newport in South Wales. The driver of the car had minor injuries and was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving on his discharge from hospital later the same day.

Aug 6 - Mark Sanderson, 53, from Edinburgh was the third cyclist to be killed in and around the Scottish capital after a crash with a Fiat Panda on the A703 near Peebles after losing control of his bike.

Aug 3 - Scott Crawford, 50, was killed after crashing his bike in a narrow country lane. The cause is unclear.

Aug 3 - Graham Epps, 29, from Wincheap, died in a crash with a silver Vauxhall Meriva on the A2 near Canterbury that left his bike “in pieces”. The 50-year-old driver was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

Aug 2 -Dan Harris, 28, was killed by a bus carrying foreign journalists from the Olympic Park. The driver of the bus was arrested.

July 30 - Raj Soni, 18, died three days after losing control of his bike and colliding with a wall in North Somerset. The police said: “Despite wearing a cycling helmet, he suffered serious head injuries.”

July 30 - Kyle Coen, 14, was killed in a hit-and-run after he was knocked from his bike by a grey Fiat Bravo on the A2 London Road near Sittingbourne in Kent. The driver did not stop.

July 29 - Paul Lake, 27, from Wolverhampton as found dead with serious injuries on a grass verge by the roadside in Kingswinford in the West Midlands. His death is still being investigated by crash investigators.

July 25 - Adam Cumbor, 20, from Great Ayton died in a crash near Kildale in North Yorkshire. The cause remains unclear.

July 25 - Kadian Harding, 14, from Hampshire was killed in a crash with the driver of a van on the A4 near Malborough.

July 19 - Arthur Bough, 78, was killed in a crash with a lorry driver on the A451 near Kidderminster. The lorry driver was not injured and was arrested.

July 16 - Jason Sandford, 33, died after a crash in Newquay. It is believed he hit a stationary car.

July 15 - Denisa Perinova, 21, died after a collision threw her in front of a Mini on the B480 in Stonor near Henley.

July 10 - Neil Turner, 31, was killed in a crash with the driver of a car in Croydon in south London, believed to be the ninth death in the capital so far this year.

July 8 - Alexander Ward, 23,from Cambridge was killed when he was struck by a horsebox near Temple Guiting in Gloucestershire. The 58-year-old driver of the horsebox was unhurt.

July 5 - Tarsem Dari, 60, died after a crash with the 34-year-old driver of a tipper lorry in Southall Broadway in West London. The driver was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

July 4 - Paul “Frankie” John Dyas, 40, was killed following a crash with the driver of an HGV in Widnes in Cheshire.

July 1 - Harrison Carlin, 15, from Hucknall, was killed in a crash with the driver of a Mitsubishi Lancer car. The driver was unhurt.

June 28 - Gary Michael Newsam, 51, was killed in a crash with the 24-year-old driver of a blue Toyota in Sherborne. They had been travelling in the same direction at the time of the crash.

June 27 - Tom Ridgway, 20, a student of animation at Bournemouth University, was killed when he was knocked off his bike by the driver of a van on Streetsbrook Road in Solihull. The driver remains on bail after being arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

June 26 - Redwan Uddin, aged 9 years old, was killed in a hit-and-run when the driver of a silver Mazda car hit him and his brother while they were cycling on their mountain bikes in East Ham in London. A 21-year-old man later handed himself into police and was arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving, failure to stop and GBH.

June 25 - Dean Biddiscombe, 27, was killed by a lorry in Bath Road in Bridgwater in Somerset, as the lorry driver turned left into the Morrison’s distribution centre. The 30-year-old lorry driver was unhurt and was arrested.

June 20 - Maris Erenpreiss, 21, a Latvian man from Penn Fields, died when he clipped a kerb and was thrown from his bike. The builder who tried to save Mr Erenpreiss’s life called for traffic calming measures on the “horrendous” stretch of road at Old Hill in Tettenhall in the West Midlands.

June 11 - Ian McNaughton, 72, from Argyl, suffered serious head injuries after a crash on the A38 at Buckover. He died in hospital 11 days later. Police are investigating the cause of the accident - it is not known what other vehicles may have been involved.

June 9 - Georgia Ellen Flynn, 18, from Flixton, was injured outside the Trafford Centre in Manchester when her bike was in a collision with the driver of a lorry. She died later in hospital.

June 8 - Lewis Monks, 19, a talented BMX rider, was killed in a crash with the driver of a bus while riding abreast with friends on the Newstead Road in Weymouth.

June 5 - Amber Cameron, aged just 8, was killed in a crash with a bus while riding her bike in Elderslie in Scotland. She had been off school during the bank holiday and sadly died at the scene. Local residents said they had repeatedly warned about the need for traffic calming measures on the street, which is home to many families and young children.

June 5 - Trelawney Burgoyne, 39, died after a crash with two cars on the B1150 in Norwich in a crash with the drivers of a black Vauxhall Vectra and black Saab.

May 30 - Peter James, 78, was killed in a crash with the driver of a Ford Focus on Stock Way North in Nailsea in Somerset. Paramedics attempted resuscitation, but he died at the scene.

May 29 - Lee Chapman, 23, was killed at 10.30am in a crash with a dustbin lorry in Hastings on Haywood Way. He was pronounced dead at the scene, close to the HGV testing station in Ivyhouse Lane.

May 27 - Alex Fryer, 22, was found by the roadside with head and chest injuries after cycling home through Benfeet in Essex. Police are still investigating the cause of his death.

May 28 - Mark Brummell, 53, was in a crash with the driver of a Renault Scenic in Ipley in the New Forest. He died later in hospital. The driver, a 59-year-old man, was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

May 24 - Joe Wilkins, 39, a firefighter from Eynsham, was killed in a crash with the driver of a Ford Focus in Appleton in Oxfordshire. The driver, a 39-year-old man, has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

May 23 - John Knowles, 40, from Beestonwas killed in a crash with a lorry driver in Bramcote, Nottinghamshire.

May 17 - Daniel Hargreaves, 41,was killed in Huyton in Liverpool in a crash with an HGV. He suffered serious head injuries and was pronounced dead at the scene. The 63-year-old HGV driver was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

May 14 - Paul Fingleton, 47, was killed while cycling round the “notorious” Broughton roundabout in Preson, in a crash with a Citroen Relay van.

May 4 - Michael Walker, 17, was killed on the Holes Bay Road in Poole in a crash with a Ford Fiesta driven by a 70-year-old man.

May 3 - Sam Crisp, 21, died of serious head injuries after a crash with a Vauxhall Corsa in Sprowston in Norfolk.

May 2* - Phil Dawn, 34, cycled across a level crossing in Nottinghamshire while the gates were down, and was struck by a train at around 4.30pm.

April 29 - Zakiyuddin Mamujee, 58, a shopkeeper from Northwood near London, died after being knocked from his bike while delivering newspapers. The driver of the car, who was in his 60s, was arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving.

April 22 - Orla Lawlor, 26, was cycling with her cycling club when she killed at 10.45am in a crash with a Rover car on Edworth Drive in Bedfordshire.

April 16 - Mark Alan Camber, 48, was killed in a crash with a car in Terrick in Buckinghamshire. Two men were arrested on suspicious of dangerous driving and another on suspicion of obstructing police.

April 12 - James Cramp, 41, from Bexhill, in hospital after being struck on his bike by a lorry as he was cycling on the A259 at 7am.

April 6 - Stephen Warrington, 60, was killed in a crash with a lorry on the A1 near Blyth in Nottinghamshire, the second lorry-related cyclist fatality on that stretch of the A1 this year.

March 27 - Tommy Berry, 58, was killed in a crash with a black Fiat Punto on Meadow Lane in Croston in Wigan.

March 27 - Frank Mugisha, 41, died on April 2, six days after a collision with a car in Tottenham. the 62-year-old driver was arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving. He is the fifth cyclist to be killed in London so far this year.

March 25 - Paul Derbyshire, 44, from Cheddleton in Staffordshire, died after falling from his bike while cycling in Draycott-in-the-Moors. It is not believed any other vehicle was involved, but a number of motorists stopped to help.

March 23 - Olatunji Johnson Adeyanju, 17, known locally as “TJ”, was killed in a hit-and-run in Deptford in South London. The silver Audi car was later found abandoned and a 27-year-old man arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and failure to stop.

March 23 - Lyndsey Maurice Dando, 80, was killed on his bike in Frome in a collision with a 37-year-old motorcyclist, Robert Chapman, who also died at the scene of the accident.

March 18 - Andrew Ridsdale, 43, died after a crash with an HGV on the A1 in Nottinghamshire. UDPDATE: Nigel Drake,43, has been charged with causing death by driving without due care and attention.

March 10 - Junaid Ali Khan, 12, was killed when his bike was in a crash with a Suzuki Swift car in Chorlton in Manchester.

March 5 - Ali Nasralla, an eight-year-old schoolboy, was hit by a black cab as he cycled home from school in Kingston in southwest London. He died from head injuries in hospital the next day.

March 5 - Bryan Simons, 40, died of head injuries in a crash with a taxi in Edinburgh, which was pictured with a smashed winsdcreen at the scene.

February 12 - Stephen David Salt, 46, from Morecambe was killed in a crash with two cars on the Kendal bypass, one being driven by an off-duty police officer.

February 6 - Alan Mort, 63, a retired paramedic, was killed in a crash with a Range Rover on the A458 in Flint. UPDATE: John James Evans, 44, has been charged with causing death by dangerous driving.

February 3 - Henry Warwick, 61, a bicycle courier, was killed at a busy London junction in a crash with a Terravision airport bus.

February 3 - Ken Usher, who was 77 and a record-holding veteran cyclist, was killed in Whaplode Drove in Lincolnshire last Friday in a crash with a Suzuki Wagon.

January 25 - Lee Anthony Davison, 31, was killed in Washington in Tyne & Wear on January 25 in a crash with a car as it overtook him. UPDATE: William Moon, 54, has pleaded guilty to causing death while driving without a licence. He received a suspended jail sentence and was banned from driving for five years.

January 24 - Robb Fraser, 40, was captain of the Thatcham Cricket Club in West Berkshire and was killed in a collision with a lorry in Thatcham.

January 23 - Christopher Griffiths, 50, was killed on Teeside on the A19 near Hartlepool in a collision with a lorry.

January 19 - Neil Thompson, 54, from Leicestershire, was killed near Desford in a collision with a Nissan car. UPDATE: The driver, William Manson, 62, was jailed for eight months for causing death by careless driving in October 2012.

January 13 - Josh Dale, 14, was hurt in a crash with a blue Ford Focus in Colwick, Nottinghamshire, and died of his injuries in hospital on January 24.

January 13 - Maria Micklethwaite, 36, was killed in a collision with a car in South Hiendley, near Wakefield in West Yorkshire.

January 11 - Steven Shaw Prime, 47, was killed in a collision with a white van on the A18 in North Lincolnshire.

January 7 - James Darby, 44,was struck by the door of a parked car as it was opened by the driver in Beckenham near London, and he died of his injuries on January 22.

January 5 - James Hodgson, 14, also died on January 5 on the A483 near Welshpool in Wales in a crash with a black Volkswagen Polo car.

January 5 - Andrew McNicoll, 43, died on Lanark Road in Edinburgh. It is believed he was struck by an overtaking lorry after he collided with a parked car. UPDATE: A man was detained by police but released without charge. Police say inquiries are ongoing.

January 4 - David Noy, 64, was the first fatality when he was killed in a crash with a car on the B1121 road near Saxmundham in Suffolk on January 4.

Frank, to understand the comparative scale of this problem, how many pedestrians have died in the Netherlands this year as a result of negligent cyclists?

Would be interesting to compare with the UK cycling deaths number.

I am again concerned that we have the 'who has died because of a cyclist jumped a red light' arguement. Why do we have to excuse the arrogent cyclist any more than we have to excuse the arrogent motorist. I have had to grab my daughter on a zebra crossing as a cyclist chose not to wait as we crossed. I realise i must be in a minority as a cyclist that stops at red lights and zebras but surely if we expect drivers to be more aware and careful, then surely we can expect cyclists to be the same?

I am fed up that all cyclists get tarred by the xxxker who jumps the red light. Or who post 'look how fast and dangerously I can cycle accross London' youtubes for that matter.

(moan over.......for now)

There I fixed it for you. Your final sentence gets the point. We all need to chill out and give each other some space. And people in cars need to stop trying to kill me.

Dearest Winky, I knew you would be along soon.. Thank you and quite right.

Hi Frank

Like you I have been scared by their practices (particularly in the evening when beer and whatever else is involved) however I doubt there are many people dying as a result so perhaps it falls more in the slight nuisance category?

Best Wishes, Mark

I'm on a new program to not get too stressed about this stuff, especially when on my bike. I no longer verbally "correct" other road users when they transgress, not even when they place me in danger. (I had given up physically striking their cars with an open hand a couple of years earlier). Now I just give them space and relax. No yelling, no abuse, not even polite suggestions. It is working well. I am much happier for it.

Lutyens, we should not excuse the arrogant cyclist any more than the arrogant driver. However, the driver is responsible for one or two tonnes of metal travelling at high speed with a long stopping distance so might we agree their responsibility is far greater?

That van driver in Wales recently...that is what a vehicle can do.

I have reproduced a list of cyclists (all people!) who have died this year. I am not sure an anecdote about an incident that might have happened is really as serious in the grand scheme (although obviously I am glad you were ok ).

The red light thing seems a convenient sideshow raised by the pro-car crowd. Most cyclists stop at red lights. Some don't. Who is dying? Other than the motorists dying of annoyance because they are waiting behind cyclists If you separate out the cyclists then the drivers might feel less moral outrage and injustice and be able to put their toys back in their prams!

Belt and braces me, usually have a battery light as well but battery failure in the middle of nowhere with no street lighting is also a nightmare. My dynamo retains charge and keeps light while stationary for the period of a traffic light, most newer models seem to do this as well. At least the Shimano hubs on my and the missus town bikes do.

Very sensible. Not sure what it's like where you are, but I have had several clients who have done this and then either been run down or assaulted by the driver of the car.

Of those, a couple ended up paying for the damage to the car as well - two wrongs neither make a right nor excuse one!

Marky, I listed that anecdote simply as that.

I think the issue may be that at red lights and zebras pedestrians feel they should be safe from all road users (as Winky says) but that they really notice the cyclists at that point as it is usually them jumping the lights etc rather than the cars.....although they do too of course. Being hit by a cyclist when you a pedestrian can be pretty frightening and damaging not just by the mass of the impact but also the flayling arms and toppling bike! I agree you are very much less likely to die from that crash tho'.

And at the same time I see no reason why i should feel threatened on my bicycle just because i am cyclist on the road with  motor vehicles. So I have learnt to ride very assertively and that  obviously annoys some drivers (quite a lot of taxi drivers here in London actually but that is another story!). Like all cyclists I could list the near misses and some not so near misses. Ironically the only time I broke something was hitting a pot hole and not a car in sight!

However I am not in favour of seperation. I am very happy there are cycle lanes but frankly they are for the less sure and slower cyclists. On my commute I want to get places. I have long held the view that staying as close to the speed of the traffic is safest. I am in the drivers veiw for longer etc. I also make sure i am seen by having lights, wearing dayglo and just taking the road when i think i need to to protect me rather than letting a driver make the decision on what i need to be safe. I also choose the time of day/rush hour i think is safest to be in.

Weekend rides are another story of course and no way are those roads going to be seperated!

So it must be about educating drivers that i, and you, are here to stay and just as likely to be in their way as not depending on the road and the conditions. But what does me being in their way cost them? An extra minute on their journey?

Go on... hug a driver today

I'd agree with that. It is a logical fallacy. Basically "Car drivers shouldn't be criticised for killing cyclists because bike riders break rules". The logic is only valid if the cyclists' rule breaking is the primary cause of the killings, and not the car drivers' negligence.

I thought we were talking about respect for each other on the road?

Dear Bruce,

I think we shall gracefully disagree on the safety of cycling.

I have managed forty miles an hour once! Never gain I can tell you!

I have even pedaled to thirty on the flat, and would not attempt that again in the post April crash scenario. Okay I am getting older, and less prone to court risk.

But essentially cycling can be as safe as walking - with a weather eye on risks. In the summer I use skinny tyres, as they roll nicely and suit my ancient Carlton aesthetically, and in the dry are perfectly safe, but in the inclement autumn and winter I use much larger [only just fit in the short reach frame and brakes] Marathon tyres that have as much grip in the wet as any cycle tyre I have ever used. Far better than knobbly mountain bike tyres for example. 

Since the crash, I have either walked the cycle on the pavement, or cycled on the very nice cycle path on my commute, apart from some nice social cycling in Norfolk on the August Bank Holiday weekend. But the drivers in Norfolk are very nice to cyclists ...

I may regain my nerve, but in traffic hour urban situations, I will always just get off and walk. Thus my cycling is not inherently dangerous.

I totally agree with the last line you wrote. we are all responsible to a large degree for optimising our own safety, whatever the activity.

ATB from George

Dear Oskarskeeper,

I completely agree with you. I am not limiting this to the cycle and motor vehicle interaction, but on a cycle thread, naturally, my reply was within the context.

I believe that in a society were respect and care for others has dropped down the priorities, legislation needs to make negligence and carelessness, be it by a cyclist, by a driver, or by a builder carelessly dropping potentially fatal bricks on people, such that the penalties should be so serious as to be a deterrent even to thoughtless and careless people. One sees them every day, and because they can currently get away with it they do!

Otherwise the points I would have been made have already been made well by others [such as Winki] so I hardly need to bore everyone with a re-iteration of them.

ATB from George

I often feel safer cycling in town because the speed of all traffic is so much slower: I often feel most vulnerable on the open road because the speed of traffic, and my own speed, is higher and the consequences of someone getting it wrong is greater.

I agree. I have no issues with cycling in the city, but fast motor vehicles on narrow country roads make me more nervous. But it is all great. Just get out there and do it, people!

From the "Metro" newspaper website, today:

On average, three pedestrians die each year in Britain in collisions with cyclists. Just ten per cent of those accidents occur on footways.

In contrast, about 40 pedestrians are killed annually by motor vehicles on footways or verges, the CTC said.

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/71...61-law#ixzz2BqhUhnm3

From this we may gather that pedestrians are much more at risk from motor vehicles than cycles when they are on a pavement in the UK.

The primary problem of safety remains the poor standard of driving motor vehicles, and as I suggested earlier there would be a benefit in legislation on this to act as a deterrent for careless and dangerous driving.

Speeding should attract far more serious penalties than currently as the risk of causing a fatal injury rises exponentially with speed. I have always favoured a punishment for motorists that the vehicle should be crushed. A vehicle is frequently a matter of pride and joy to its driver. This would be a very fine and fair way to make people more respectful of the law and other road users. The cost to the driver would also well reflect his ability to pay ...

If it happened to be a company vehicle, the same would apply as a careless company driver would soon be sacked for these breeches of the law if the company had to keep replacing the vehicle, and cease to be a danger on the road.

ATB from George

Brilliant George 

And as someone who cycles 1000's of miles each year I'm on your side

Karl

Lights: it depends where you ride.

I'm a veteran of the Euston Road, so I like to be seen, but I don't need to see.

So I have full reflective clothing, with additional reflectives on my commuting bike frame and my backpack. For lights I've a pair of (different) Cat Eyes on the front (one flashing, the other steady), and the same deal on the back. They're mostly ok but get wet and fail now and then, hence you need them in pairs. I'll probably upgrade to something brighter at some point because I want to be seen.