Is there an optimal volume to listen to music?

Just below the level where your ears bleed

The replies to this topic don't seem to be appearing. The title is coming up on the 'Recent Topics' list as if there are responses. I'm posting this as a test.

Ah, 1 reply seems to have gotten through but I know there were others.

Cbr,

That's the level I was used to enjoying sometimes to the point of .......

Steve

Turn up the volume to 11

Spinal Tap says its 11 and who am I to argue with them? 

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and... 
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten? 
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly. 
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder? 
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? 
Marty DiBergi: I don't know. 
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? 
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven. 
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder. 
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder? 
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

Yes there is...its the volume which prompts  your neighbour to pop round in his/her dressing gown at 3am to tell you to turn it down or he/she will call the police or if you are not sure if its loud enough to ensure a knock on the door from your neighbour then turn it up to  number 11  on your dial 

If your volume control has no number 11 then you need to trade it in for one that does.

if your volume control does have a number 11 setting then you need to wear ear protectors, as clapping your hands to your ears is not  optimal.

Originally Posted by Steve J:

Ah, 1 reply seems to have gotten through but I know there were others.

Cbr,

That's the level I was used to enjoying sometimes to the point of .......

Steve

Steve, that looks like another part of your anatomy that is exploding.
Why not play at your level and give the wife some ear plugs!
Paul

Nice one.  Unfortunately there is no exploding eardrum just the 'salami'.

On my 552 11 is not even half way 'round. Perhaps I should go to 12, it's only one past 11.

I had a feeling this thread would get the humorists out.

Hi Steve. Just a thought could your new DR additions have changed your wives perception of the ‘loudness’ of the system.  

Regards Graham.

I have to admit the DR does bring something to the table regarding listening at lower levels. Could be. The real reason is probably that with the higher volume she knows it's pointless trying to have a conversation. I must raise the volume! 

ATB

Steve

Hi Doc -

Upon hearing the exact same criticism from Mrs. Hook, but also from having friends with hearing loss as well as tinnitus, I have become extremely careful when it comes to setting volume. I downloaded an inexpensive SPL meter for the iPad from Studio Six Digital, and it's readouts are pretty accurate -- almost the same as my Radio Shack meter.  I use the "A weighting" and "slow sampling" settings to establish a peak of 80-81 dB. I also quickly recheck at the start of each LP or CD rip, since the recording levels vary so greatly.

Somehow my unprotected ears made it safely through decades of live rock concerts, and I have no desire to risk any damage to them now.  Have read that 82dB is a safety threshold for long-term listening. TBH, with 81 dB peaks at my nearfield listening position, I do not feel like I am missing anything.

Hook

PS - All that said, I plead guilty yer honor to occasionally cranking it up for a song or two.  Why is it that things that are so much fun are also so bad for us?  I can't wait until I turn 90, where there will no longer be a risk of a shortened life.  At that point, watch out world!  

Hook,

A very scientific and entertaining post. I never gave a thought to objectively measuring the volume. It makes obvious sense. Thanks. I'll look into it.

ATB

Steve

THE LOUDSPEAKER AND THE CONTROL UNIT

At first thought it would appear that the purpose of a volume control is solely to enable the listener to have his music loud or soft according to his whim. Whilst it, of course, fills this requirement, it has a further purpose--that of adjusting the intensity of sound so that it is correctly related to the perspective as recorded or broadcast. If a voice is picked up close to a microphone in a very absorbent studio, then on reproduction that voice will take up a position at the centre of, and in the plane of the loudspeaker. For natural sound, therefore, the loudspeaker should radiate similar power to that of the original voice. If on the other hand the voice is picked up some way from the microphone in a more live studlo, then the voice on reproduction will take up a position through the loudspeaker and a considerable distance behind it. It is clear that the power required for the loudspeaker for natural sound is now very much less than in the first case. The position or perspective of the reproduced sound is fixed at the studio end and there is little that can be done at the listening end to alter it.

Page Seven

It follows that the volume setting for natural sound is to a large extent fixed at the studio end. Studio monitoring is usually carried out at a reasonable level and the whole aim is to produce listening as from a favourable seat in the Concert Hall. Adjusting the volume control to a level to give this correct acoustic perspective will produce the most natural reproduction The level is usually such that it is quite possible to speak to a person sitting next to the listener without raising the voice or turning down the sound level -- as indeed this is possible in the Concert Hall. Raising the level to "bring the orchestra into the room" or turning it down to a low background will both distort the perspective, although this may have to be tolerated on certain occasions. It should be pointed out that no amount of tone control or loudness control can affect the perspective, although these effects can be used to produce a new sound which although quite unlike the original is sometimes found acceptable. Popular music is often recorded or transmitted with close microphone technique and would therefore tend to require reproduction at higher levels. It is in fact generally monitored at a higher level. There are number of other factors which have a strong bearing on optimum listening levels but it is outside the scope of this handbook to deal with these adequately. It will be realised that the volume control setting should receive careful attention and it can be emphasised that much listening is spoilt due to insufficient care on this point.

This from the Quad ESL 57 manual.

It casts a most interesting and, in my opinion, informed description of how to set the volume for replay, and not just with ESLs.

ATB from George

Very informative.

Thanks George.

Dear Steve,

Thanks to Peter Walker

Dear George,

It's encouraging that Peter puts much more eloquently what I was trying to say in the original post regarding reproduction of vocals and " correctly related to the perspective as recorded or broadcast." 

I'm listening to Bert Jansch at the moment which is acoustic guitar and vocal. It sounds as if he's giving a personal concert.

ATB

Steve

Our ears percieve different frequencies in a non uniform way

Google search 'equal loudness contour' and check out the graphs.

We should listen to music as loud as possible, frequencies all start to even out at loud levels.

The purpose of a volume control on the 552 is self evidently to control volume.

Now we know that Naim always has  purpose in its design.brief.

Ergo the degree of turn of the volume control has purpose.

And that purpose is to turn the volume up to 11 or in Naims case 12...Why ? Because - thats why

Yes,  I know there are no numbers on the dial for 2 reasons

1 Naim does not like unnecessary lights which could interfere with the volume.

2. Naim assumes, obviously wrongly, that there are more subtle ways of determining whether or not the volume is suitable.for example:

you can only hear bells ringing

the windows blow out

you spot the wife and kids in pajamas hailing a taxi,

 the  dog is wearing ear protectors.

your mother-in -law self-immolates in the porch

pieces of furniture begin to move towards your HiFi as it develops its own gravitational field

there is an announcement on Tv that the national grid is closing down to conserve energy reserves.

a tank appears in front of your house and prepares to fire

HM nuclear submarine executes a pre-emptive nuclear strike on North Korea in the mistaken belief that England is under attack.

By the way I should have sais if any of those things happen then its too loud..,,,11

The more well sorted the system [not necessarily in expense but it can help], the better it will sound at lower levels.

Their was a post on listening levels some time back where folks used an app SPL meter to compare their 'normal' listening levels.  In the 60-70's I seem to remember being an average.

My neighbours go to church this morning so it'll peak into the 80's....or '11' in Tufnell terms.  G

Very true Julian, especially now with the DR.

ATB

Steve

Hi Graeme,

Hook mentioned the SPL app above which I might try today. I've just finished grouting some tiles and my wife has gone shopping so I think I'll crank up the volume this morning.

ATB

Steve

I've just downloaded the SPL ap Hook suggested for 69p from iTunes. It works very well. My initial findings are the the volume I tend to listen to is around the 80db mark and the volume my wife asked me to reduce it to was about 60db. I think 70db is a nice compromise.

Thanks for the tip Hook,

ATB

Steve