Linn KDS vs NDS

Thank you Dungassin. Heard the NDS last Friday and going to hear the KDS for the first time tomorrow (in a completely different system unfortunately).

Would you mind giving us some specifics ? The system involved, what you liked or disliked, and what made you decide for the NDS ?

ATB

Maurice

System was IIRC 552, don't know which Naim power amp, but probably the 500.  Speakers were  Kudos 30 (?).  555ps was DR version.  The system sounded warmer than the 282/HiCap/250.2/nSats I use with the NDX (see my profile).

In the end it's all personal taste, but I found the NDS to be more exciting and better at communicating the emotion in the music.  I also found vocals a little easier to follow. Music used was Elgar Cello Concerto (Du Pre), Brahms Haydn Variations (Monteux), O suave fanciulla (Pavarotti, Freni), Reconsider Baby (Elvis), Sea of Love (Katie Webster), Tiger (Paula Cole), Serve The Ego (Jewel), Get A Haircut (George Thorogood),  Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow (Laura Branigan), Prospero's Speech (Loreena McKennitt), Tobacco Road (The Cicadas).   Mostly CD sourced, though some was from transcribed from my LP collection. at 24bit, 44.1kHz.  Why this selection? Just happened to be things I have listened to recently.  The Elgar showed the emotional aspect difference very well.

The KDS was very good, but I still preferred the NDS.  I could happily live with either, but will continue down the Naim path for now.  YMMV, of course.

Very interested in that emotional aspect. The Akurate DSM left me cold yesterday, but admittedly it was not a Naim system. Looking forward to listening to the KDS tomorrow, but I guess it's going to be in a Linn system.

Thanks, and good luck in securing an NDS !

Did you notice the difference in bass section?

I guess Naim should be weightier in bass and more punchy.

Did you notice a difference in smoothness of the presentation?

Any difference in soundstage/imaging?

It's a pity you didn't test them in hi-res 

Why ? Do you find the KDS/1 better than the NDS with hi-res files ? Or were you just curious ?

Didn't use HiRes files because most of my digital music isn't.  After all, it has to work with ALL of my music, no just HiRes. Wasn't listening particularly for imaging, tonal balance etc, but more for whether the sound drew me in and how (un)willing I was to stop and go to the next selection.  With the NDS I found I myself wanting to continue listening to  the same track rather than moving on.  In "hifi" terms, the Linn was smoother, but somehow less involving.

For me, it's all about how much the system makes me want to continue listening, be it thrash metal, opera, folk, country whatever.  Some music will reduce me to tears (e.g. the Elgar Cello Concerto), and the Naim had more of that effect.

Purely as an aside, I am loving the Te Kaitora Rua recently installed on my LP12 in place of my worn out old Te Kaitora. 

I've still to hear the NDS, not much longer though as it will be at our Future of HIFi event next month, but I used to sell Linn until a couple of months ago at a previous employer and I found the same m0omo0, initially I would start listening to a full Klimax system and think this is great, which it undoubtedly is, but after a while I found myself loosing interest and my mind wondering off and thinking about what I'm having for tea that night, hardly ideal, I actually enjoyed listening to the NDX/XPS combo more so I have high expectations for the NDS.

That is only my opinion though and I know a few people who wouldn't have anything else other than their Klimax kit, the joys of hifi eh.

Understood Paul, I guess I'll see tomorrow. This said, AMA stated more than once that the KDS/1 in the context of a Naim system has Naim-like qualities, which seems to be a novelty.

It was my first encounter with a Linn product, so don't take my word too seriously.

I'm just curious. I didn't audition NDS yet.

But I did audition KDS/1 vs nDAC/555PS and published the details on the forum.

And the sonic patterns between the two setups on Red Book and on hi-res were very different.

Yes, I remember that. Is an audition of the NDS in sight ? Looking forward to your reporting.

My local dealer does not have one on display.

I'll possibly save myself for ND555 

SWMBO says I can have 'my new toy'.  

Wouldn't have had to ask her, but I keep a lot of my savings in her name for tax reasons.

Very true, and I am a long term owner of both Linn and Naim.  It really comes down to personal preference, and after all these years I know what I like.  I recall auditioning Linn's first CD player at sound Advice and finding the Naim CDS preferable by a large margin (I still own it!)

There are those here who are very enthusiastic about Naim Ovators. I was distinctly underwhelmed by them.  Doesn't bother me at all that I disagree with them, and I fully respect their choice.  Enjoy your Linn streamer, as I will enjoy my NDS,  

After long tests and thoughts and changing preferences over time I eventually came up to the point where the red apples and green apples start tasting equally good to me.

Though I still know many people who have a polarized view on the same.

I agree 100% with that. I can hear the differences but enjoy them both equally as well and can spend an evening listening to either quite happily. 

I sincerely hope you never have to get divorced!  Your savings??????

M0omo0

Interested to hear how you got on with the KDS? :-)

Cheers

Robbo

We've been married for 41 years, and have joint accounts for most things, but I am still a top rate tax payer even though retired, hence we make use of her tax allowance.  No actually a problem, but we all have to moan about something. 

@Robbo,

I will report, but I'm in a mess with my laptop now, so I'm briefly posting from other devices which I'm not comfortable to use for a long post with pictures. Sorry for the teasing !

PS: Hint: I liked it.

M0omo0

Particularly interesting as I haven't yet ordered the NDS ;-)

Can I also ask what you auditioned it with?

Thanks

Robbo

Ok Robbo, so the detailed story is in another thread here.

Now, about the comparison, I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint.

As you've read before, I was underwhelmed with the NDS, certainely because I had great (excessive ?) expectations, and in my opinion because the speakers and/or the PSUs were not enough run-in. Plus, the dryness of the ProAcs K6 also got in my way. And it was a social event after all, not a personal demo.

On the contrary, I was delighted with the Klimax DS, despite the lesser Akurate system and the surrealistic conditions, certainely because it was a complete relief after a so-so demo 2 days before and the sloppy beginning of the current one, but also because it is a fantastic machine.

Totally different contexts, totally different systems. No meaningful conclusion in sight unfortunately.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I find the NDS a piece of crap, which it definitely is not. My feeling is that it showed the potential to be really brilliant, in the proper situation (or at least proper for me). I won't do anything regarding the acquisition of a streamer before having attended a full demo of the NDS in a controlled and well known and understood context. I can already say in its favour that on several occasions it showed it's strengths: on Baldamore by Hadouk Trio the details and insights on the playing and audience were IMO better than with the KDS (but remember that it was with a 552 when the Klimax had "only" an Akurate Aktiv system); on a double bass solo track, the timbre and string attack were absolutely fantastic. I would like to listen to the NDS again, I'm sure the demo didn't do it full justice.

A meaningful demo would be to listen to the NDS and Klimax in the very same Naim system. Unfortunately I don't know where to go around here for such a demo, not mentioning 500-series Naim gear. There would be only one dealer carrying both brands of streamers as far as I can see. Of course, it would be even better to have such a demo at home, but we both known this isn't the norm where we live.

My gut feeling, based on what I've heard, is that the NDS may have more punch. The Klimax has plenty of PRaT, but I found the sound mainly calm and authoritative (in an impressive way). For me, coming from a CD5 often qualified as being more "laid-back" (and sometimes described as "the poor man's CDS3") paired with a 252, and having learned -- thanks to my Nait 2 -- to like a bit more boogie, I think I'll like the NDS more if it fulfills its promise.

For yourself, coming from a CDX/82 and also moving to a 552, thus used to that kind of boogie, it might well be the same. Beware though that the NDS has not been described as a boogie machine per se. On the other hand, if you'd fancy a subtle change in sound, aiming to slightly calmer territories without sacrificing the PRaT, than try to audition the Klimas DS/1.

Not sure it does, but hope it helps nonetheless. Don't hesitate to ask if you would like to chat more about the details.


ATB and keep us posted !
Maurice

I wrote a little description of my experience with KDS v NDS done using my own system. There are details here

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...80#21699649975002680

If you page down a bit there is an attempt to write up the outcomes (it is very poor - sorry).

I liked both machines, but own the NDS. I feel the NDS is superior in my system. Inmaby ways I agree with the views expressed by Maurice.

Was on the verge of pulling the trigger on the NDS, but a niggling little voice has been telling me to look outside the naim fold for the first time in the last decade... so I've just booked flights to London and a demo at Grahams next weekend to compare the NDS against the Klimax DS.  I'm feeling quite open to going over to the dark side from an aesthetic and box count perspective... let's see if the linn can deliver the goods sonically.

Good decision, at least then if you do buy the NDS, there will be no doubts