Linn KDS vs NDS

If it makes you feel better -- KDS is available in silver 

AMA, I beleive you have a KDS running with your 552?  Apologies if an obvious question, but are you able to control the 552 volume level via the KDS control app?

Maurice

Now to choose some decent tracks to highlight the important differences... decisions decisions...!!

Just take your usual suspects, i.e. your most cherished albums, as well as some you're listening to now.

Easy.

PS: I'd probably take some terrible masterings too, just to see if they sound any better. But I wouldn't care for Jazz at the Pawnshop or The Pros and Cons of Hitch-Hiking (I like them both though).

I have no idea t be honest.

I have never tried Linn remote -- it's still in the box, unpacked.

I use Naim NARCOM to operate 552 volume and btw it also can pause/play and switch the tracks on KDS -- just as if it was a Naim streamer.

Nice synergy betweeen Naim remote and KDS 

Odd enough these are two of my favorite recordings.

Never had any complains on the mastering quality 

I see. I have the same issue. A lot of tracks have been digitally remastered in 80s on the very poor studio gears and never been remastered since then. At the same time they sound superb on LP.

KDS was very convincing in playing these crappy Red Books in a very enjoyable way -- without a digital edge, annoying halos/echos and without ear-killing bright-forward midrange.

Not as good as my LP12 but very pleasant and listenable to my ears.

In many aspects Naim players are very honest and ruthless to the old recordings and this is the point where more relaxed and musically balanced Linn presentation can take the edge.

I was mostly hopeless to find a universal solution and always thought of setting up two digital sources: one is a true player for high quality recordings and the other one is the sweet-sounding player for the old Red Books.

Until I came across the KDS -- fantastic machine which somehow managed to combine the virtues of the both world. It somehow plays old Red Books in a very sweet and soft way while the good masterings sound very fast, punchy with sharp transients.

I shall closely watch what Naim will offer inside the ND555 box (and I keep 555PS-DR ready for that). 

Very interesting this aspect of the KDS, thanks for sharing. Haven't had the time to experience that myself, as we were mainly listening to my friend's choice of music (all very good recordings).

Do others have any experience to share regarding how the NDS treats bad masterings ?

Great review in What Hi-Fi - words along the lines of the NDS is so addictive it should be outlawed - audition at your peril!

Did the demo yesterday.  Brief summary for anybody that is interested.

Objective was two-fold - compare the NDS to the NDX, then, if the former deemed worth the extra outlay (which based on previous demo was a foregone conclusion, but good to re-assess) onto compare to the KDS.

Rest of system = 552(DR) + 250.2 + B&W 804s, on quadraspire.

Started with NDX + XPS (DR) for 20 mins or so.  Music from Birdy + Norah Jones (Hi Def), plus Ryan Adams, Roxy Music & the Who (CD quality). The music was very enjoyable, but not absolutely riveting, with a digital feeling to the sound for want of a better word... (maybe an imbalance between the 552 & the NDX?)  Still very good though :-)

Onto the NDS. Everything carried more weight, definition, complexity, detail, insight, and smoother in presentation.  Just more realistic overall.  Very impressed and clearly a massive step up.

Then added the 555.  Improvement again, but not, to my ears, anywhere near as big a jump as the NDX > NDS.  Improvement not really in terms of detail or anything that tangible, just everything flowed more easily and sounded again more realistic (dare I say analogue?)

So by this stage I'm wondering if it can really it get any better (Norah Jones really did Hoagy proud on the Nearness of You, but never more so than on this system!)

So onwards (and upwards?) to the KDS, through the naim system.  First track from the Who.  First and immediate impression: OMG, WHAT is missing??  Drums fall into the background, the track moves along, but the raw excitement is less pronounced. An easier listen though for sure, and by the end of the song I could see that the KDS would be easy to live with on ropey CD recordings.  Certainly less up front and in your face, and more easier listening than the NDS, but lacking the same excitement.  Then onto Norah on hi-res.  Intimacy of her amazing voice has receded slightly and the music takes on a warmer cosy feel, again enjoyable and I'm warming to the KDS' effortless sound...

Next we plug the KDS into a Klimax pre and power, and the music takes on more of the same - effortless and easy sound, really very enjoyable. We end with a track from Diana Krall's new album... sounds nice, but the system really feels like it needs to be turned up a bit, almost seems a wee bit lacking in dynamics.  We put the same track through the naim and I'm immediately smiling from ear to ear... Diana has stepped up to the front of the stage, her voice pronounced in all it's glory. Norah's piano again takes on complex overtones - it's there right in front of us.  I'm smiling and feeling happy (and relieved after much deliberation over the last weeks) to feel so unequivocal about why it has to be naim :-)

I would actually agree with you Fred. ATB Peter

Hi Guys, sorry, point taken, I'll amend my comments straight away, it won't again.

Then I'm off to listen to the NDS/555 again 

Sorry I couldn't edit, so deleted, re-edited and posted again -

Hi Guys,

I've had the NDS/555PS-DR combo for a few days now, I wanted to spend a couple of days listening to it with a variety of music before posting my thoughts, as it is all too easy to be swept away with something new, shiny and expensive. But after saying all that my initial impressions were right after just a few songs, The NDS/555 combo is the best streamer I have ever heard, including the KDS. Now I should make it clear that I am not a Naim Fan boy by any stretch of the imagination, I have always bought Bryston for home, but the NDS/555 has made me question that, basically I would say that this combo produces some of the best music I have ever heard, I have actually been listening to music that I couldn't listen to on my Bryston system which I put down to poor recordings, stuff like Kings of Leon and the killers, but on the NDS it sounds fantastic.

Comparing it directly with my NDX/XPS shows what a step up it is, it makes the NDX still sound a little digital if that makes sense, with the NDS/555 you get a real richness and fullness with real body and weight, but more importantly there is a smoothness that gives it that vinyl, analogue sound which allows the music to flow beautifully and even though the higher frequencies are very rounded there is amazing detail retrieval, I know it is the biggest cliché in the hifi book but with one of my favourite demo tracks, Teardrop by Massive Attack, I swear I could hear things deep in the background that I have never heard before.

The trouble is I feared this would happen and is one of the reasons I firmly believe that ignorance is bliss in hifi as now I’m going to find it very hard to enjoy the NDX/XPS combo, I don’t suppose anyone has got any memory wipe techniques they could pass on 

Thank you Robbo ! 

Glad you've found what suits you best. NDS + 552 must be something.

So far, if I am correct, the published results (leading to actual purchase) are:

NDS 3-0 KDS

Thanks Paul, good response

this wednesday Sinterklaas* is in town, I'm sure he will be nice to you

Cheers, Fred

*Dutch saint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas

Paul, I'm not so lucky to have this in A/B demo. Could you describe the difference?

I'm really struggling to project if you get the same score on the Linn forum poll ?  

  These potentially slightly controversial figures are for the Naim forum eyes-only !

I don't know for the Linn forum as I have no experience of it, but I know at least one famous fishy place where I'd be instantly burnt alive !

And if Robbo's decription of the effect of introducing more and more Linn components into a Naim system is anything to consider, a NDS-fronted Linn system might create shock and horror among Linn devotees.

To these eyes, the comparative descriptions read so far reveal nothing more than a question of taste, and at such a level of quality the Klimax DS is an absolutely brilliant machine, especially for the size (how do they do this power supply thing ??).

Have a nice Sunday

Maurice

My impression (admittedly after only one demo...) is that Linn an easier listen on poor quality recordings, slightly less insightful on normal-ish recordings, and NDS on quite another level when listening to hi-res.  Some of this may be down to the 552 - a lesser preamp may not have revealed the differences quite so plainly.

Surely this is veering into 'advertorial' territory?....What if all trade members start populating the forum this way?  G

Fine example of HiFi rule number one:  "Never listen to anything over your credit card limit"     

+1, though I usually say "never listen to anything you can't afford"  Still waiting patiently for the 555PS to come back from the DR upgrade, and Phil will hopefully deliver it back to me along eith my new NDS.

This is exactly what I measure between KDS/1 and nDAC/555PS (which I'm luckily can A/B at home any day) except I would not qualify nDAC/555PS as vastly superior at hi-res.