Is nStream 3.2 sorting artists alphabetically? Or does Asset 4.1 have a bug with "The" handling?

Posted by: Hook on 11 December 2012

Or am I overlooking something? 

 

Prior to yesterday, I have been using Asset's "Smart" option for "The Artist & Album Handling".  This had for me the desirable effect of listing "The Beatles" under B (while still being displayed them as "The Beatles"). 

 

I upgraded to Asset 4.1 a week or so ago, and I upgraded to nStream 3.2 just a couple of days ago (after the arrival of my new NDS).  And now I see that the "The Beatles" only show up under T.  It is the same for every other group beginning with "The".  I did not play a lot of digital music in the past week, so I can not say if this behavior changed after Asset 4.1, but prior to nStream 3.2...

All my Beatles albums are tagged with "The Beatles" under both Artist and Album Artist....but I would thought this would made no difference to Asset, since I have also selected "Ignore Sort Values" as my option for Asset's "Artist Sort Handling".

I found a related post in the Asset forum (from back in September, 2012), where an nStream user was seeing similar unexpected behavior during the Asset 4.1 beta testing:

 

dbpoweramp > dBpoweramp > Beta Testing: Test Pre-Releases > Asset UPnP R4.1

 

I am seeing very close, but not exactly the same behavior.  I get "The Beatles" under T regardless of whether I select "All Artists" in nStream, or just the individual letter.  Note that Mr. Spoon (Asset's developer) replied by saying he suspected that nStream was doing an alphabetical sort, and overriding what Asset was trying to do.

If Phil is listening (or if another forum member has been told by Naim), can you please confirm that nStream's new behavior is to sort artists alphabetically (regardless of what the UPnP server is providing)?  If this is the case, I will be disappointed!  nStream has always been compared to a browser, and IMO, that is the way it should work. But if nStream is not doing an alphabetical sort, I will contact Mr. Spoon, and ask him to take another look at this.

Thanks for your help!

Hook

Posted on: 11 December 2012 by trickydickie

Hook

 

I hadn't noticed this until you raised it.

 

I would say it is n-stream that is the culprit.  

 

I have the latest Asset version and have Smart handling enabled and Artist Sort Handling set to "Display in Sort and Non Sort Locations".  

 

With these settings n-Stream puts "The Beautiful South" under T.  This is using the "Album Artist / Album" tree in Asset which I prefer as it makes the display cleaner, ignoring compilation artists.

 

However if I use Asset control or Media Monkey (Media Servers Option) to browse the UPNP server it sorts under "B", ignore the word "The" as expected.  I find Asset Control very useful for testing tag changes.

 

On the basis that 2 clients display this correctly I conclude that n-Stream is changing the sort behavior.

 

By the way, set to "Ignore Sort Values" I found that all clients sorted it under T again!

 

All the best

 

Richard

Posted on: 11 December 2012 by winkyincanada

Don't you just type "Beatles" to find your "(The) Beatles" albums, regardless of what some software might decide. I just don't understand why this is a big deal.

 

When we physically stored the CDs or LPs we had to make a choice, and remember what that choice was. This wasn't difficult, but now we can really just not care. I love the new way!

Posted on: 11 December 2012 by Hook

Winky -

 

Never said it was a big deal, only that I have a preference for how I want to view my collection.  It is why I went to the trouble of setting the option in Asset. 

 

When I think of The Beatles, or any other band beginning with "the", I like to disregard the prefix/article.  I also prefer not to see a ton of artists all bunched up under the letter T.  Obviously, if I search by name, it does not matter.  But I don't always know what I want to listen to next.  When that is the case, I like to scroll through my library...alphabetically.

 

FYI, I sent an email on this to info@naimaudio.com, and Phil replied.  Turns out that this was indeed a change in nStream behavior with 3.2.  No matter what your UPnP server does, nStream will reorder the artists alphabetically.  Phil explained that this was done in order to "implement direct access to letters within lists", so Naim did have a reason for doing this. 

 

But still, it caught me by surprise, as the change in behavior was not documented.  Maybe it also means that we should stop thinking of nStream as a simple browser -- it has its own logic and priorities, and because it touches the data last, it wins.

 

The good news here is that I can turn on nStream's "UPnP Compatibility Mode" to see my library in the sort order provided by Asset.  All I lose is a little bit of speed, and access to playlists, neither of which is a big deal for me.

 

Hook

Posted on: 11 December 2012 by Klout10

Hook,

 

Too bad, I've raised a several question a couple of times. It had to do with the same sorting options using the HDX and n-Serve app.

 

Regards,

Michel

Posted on: 11 December 2012 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Hook:

Winky -

 

Never said it was a big deal, only that I have a preference for how I want to view my collection.  It is why I went to the trouble of setting the option in Asset. 

 

 

Hook

Yeah, I know. I was trolling a it. No problems. I hope you get it sorted. I also browse my collection to decide what to put on.

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Harry

Never mind about all that. Your NDS has arrived. You lucky person. Congratulations.

 

BTW same here on the listing. HDX has always done this and so it is when used with the NDS.

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Dustysox

Yeah, come on  Hook full report please 

 

Congratulations and well done.

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Hook

Thanks Harry and Dusty!

 

The NDS arrived last Saturday morning -- perfect timing as the weather turned bad starting Saturday night, with a foot of heavy, wet snow to follow...

 

Opening the box, I had two initial impressions:  it's a surprisingly heavy component (compared to the NDX), and the finish of the casework is superb (a very nice step up from my early-version NDX).  Learned from my dealer that a lot of the NDS's weight is in the spring-supported brass boards.  Once the transit bolts were removed, the NDS does feel extremely wobbly!  I took great care when picking it up so as to not have the boards bump into the sides of the case.  Fortunately, the NDS has hard plastic feet instead of rubber, which made it a lot easier to place onto the Fraim's glass shelf (once two feet were down, I could slide the NDS back into position).  Also learned from my dealer that Naim has now outsourced the casework finishing to a new supplier in Switzerland.  Good move IMO -- this new supplier obviously knows what they are doing.  By comparison, the NDX and DAC's finish feels a bit rough.  In fact, on first glance, I mistakenly thought the NDS case was all brushed aluminum (like the 500 series), but touching it revealed that it was indeed powder coated.

 

Once placed, I ran through the now familiar setup menus, and made sure everything functioned well (which it did).  I listened only very briefly -- just a couple of minutes.  My initial reaction was that it sounded surprisingly good -- maybe a little shut in at the top, and little shy at the bottom.  One other thing I noted was that, unlike the DAC (and to a slightly lesser extent the NDX), there was none of that initial hardness or edginess that I was expecting.  But knowing that listening right out of the box is pointless, I tuned in to Radio Paradise, put my speakers on mute, and let it run for 12 hours.

 

Late Saturday night, just as the snow was starting to come down in earnest, I gave the NDS a first listen, and was very pleasantly surprised.  The initial hesitancy was gone (!), and I could now hear good extension at both frequency extremes.  I could pretty much immediately understand why you NDS owners were saying that it had a more "analog" sound than other Naim digital players. I too heard a richness in tone that I normally only associate with vinyl.  Oh my, what a beautiful sound!  Had it really only been running in for half a day?  I was so impressed!  I was also shocked to look at my iPad to see that it was now 3am...where did the last 4 hours go?   How surreal...

 

Have had three wonderful evenings of all digital playback since then, and the NDS is sounding extremely good to my ears.   Am trying very hard not to gush about its sound quality, as I expect it at some point to do the old roller coaster thing...but it just hasn't happened yet!  I can say that, IME, the NDS has sounded more right on first listen than any other Naim product I have ever owned.  It has made me wonder if Naim was now making more of an effort to burn these in?  I was prepared for the NDS to sound ok...but not great!  And for these first few days, it has indeed sounded great!

 

I will try and develop more thoughtful comments on its sound quality as the weeks go by.  But suffice it say for now that it is the best sounding digital component I have ever heard.   The NDX->DAC had set the bar pretty high, but IMO, the NDS is clearly the better player for me.  Right now, I do realize that my reactions are emotional, and fueled by a new pride of ownership.  But I do also believe that the NDX->DAC is very impressive...just in a different way.  My feeling is that the NDX->DAC delivers a more "technical" sound. It gives great detail and energy, but I think the NDS has got more...soul. To my ears, the NDS sounds more involving -- more effortless -- more natural -- more real.  I feel like I was quickly and unexpectedly drawn into the NDS's huge sound field -- time collapsed, hours passed, and I felt completely connected to the music.  While I enjoyed owning the NDX/DAC, I must admit that I would often catch myself thinking of spinning records instead.  My vinyl setup has always had a wonderful emotional effect on me...but only for 20 minutes at a time.  Getting into that same "zone" for an hour or two at time with the NDS is a new, and wonderful experience.  I am convinced that I have found my long-term digital player, and I am planning on buying a lot more used CD's!

 

More later, as I still have the 552PS and 555PS DR upgrades left to go! 

 

Hook

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Harry

Welcome to the retirement village Hook. 

 

There is a tendency - which you may be able to overcome - when writing about the NDS to give up trying to describe it, express yourself content and just go away and listen to it. For me it boils down to one word, "right". Past that all I can say is go listen to one or for preference bring one home for audition. If convinced, it's a position you don't feel the need to justify on cost, box count or what is in the box, because you're in a good place and it makes no difference any more.

 

I don't think mine ran in hardly at all. Yes, it was a bit cold for a few hours, but that was about it. With acknowledgement to the forum member who first coined the phrase, I make no apologies for recycling it because it fits perfectly - "they've taken away the HiFi and left all the music behind". Happy times.

 

Have fun.

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Hook
Originally Posted by Harry:

Welcome to the retirement village Hook. 

 

...

 

Have fun.

 

Thanks Harry -- couldn't agree more!

 

ATB.

 

Hook

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by 911gt3r

Hi Hook.

Enjoy your new aquisition !  Email soon Peter

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by DaveBk

Welcome to the owners club Hook. The 'rightness' you describe is bang on IMO. The NDS is a wonderful way of enjoying your music collection. Enjoy...!

Posted on: 12 December 2012 by Dustysox

Dam fine read Hook. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

Your findings mirror my own. The NDAC & 555P/S in conjunction with the NDX are a fine music "machine", but Naim for me did the "what if's" again when they released the NDS My wallet gets real nervous when that happens! My system is more balanced now. I did things back to front, 552/300/NDAC and left the source until last. My Logitech Transporter ticking many boxes for me...playlists/Internet Radio and the whole ease of streaming music in conjunction with ipeng. A real breeze. I still have the Transporter connected to the NDS digital input, and it still gets used. It took a lot of £'s and box count to surpass the Transporter. Apart from the quality increase with the NDS my Fraim is less cluttered, and again more balanced. That is until Naim do the what if's again......groan.

 

When Naim release (and i say this rather than "if"....my wallet is out of ear shot!!!!) I wonder what i'll do. I just hope i'm not too old....but then again!!!!!!!

 

Sorry to detract from your original post.