Surely, surely, surely...

I basically agree but..

Here in the UK we have basic gun laws. But that didn't prevent Hungerford, Dunblane or the Lake District. Or, for that matter, a disgruntled taxi driver in Cardiff from using his taxi as a lethal weapon.

I'm afraid I don't have much idea how to eliminate these outrages.

Cheers

Don 

Sure it doesn't completely eradicate it ( UK, France, Norway...) but I would guess it's a major contributing factor to the number of mass shootings in The States. Not the only one I know, I seem to remember something saying The Swiss had the highest number of guns per capita (Army of reserves..) and there aren't many mass murders in The Alps I believe. But come on...

When will they ever learn?

The case for gun control is incontrovertible but too many vested interests and frustrated cowboys won't let it happen.

steve

Truly horrendous

However, it will make little difference in the US. In another few weeks it will be largely forgotten I'm afraid. Having previously lived there for 12 years, i can say that the gun culture is so engrained - as well as enshrined in the constitution - that it wont change. 

A sad, sad day. 

Jim

A sad day indeed. But it will change nothing. Already the pro-gun nuts are calling for teachers to be armed.

So it becomes Gunfight at the OK Classroom instead and more innocents are slaughtered?

They are certifiable.

steve

I thought John Lennon's murder would have been a catalyst for change. But it didn't, the first reaction fron the US president was to assure the all-powerful gun lobby things would remain as they were. 

You thought wrong.

Yep. I don't doubt that he knows what it is that he should do. But he's a pragmatist. He knows the limits of his power.

Outlawing guns will do nothing but take them away from law abiding citizens for no good reason. They will always be easy to obtain in the US for nefarious reasons. The vast majority of gun crime in America is committed with illegally obtained weapons. Comparing with the UK makes no sense. Different culture, differences in scale. As for todays events, people who are that sick will find a way to act out when they break like that. Gun legislation will do nothing to mitigate that.

It's just been announced that these guns were owned legally by the murderer's mother. Who knows what the solution is. We're trying to close the door after the horse has bolted. Apparently there are three hundred million guns owned by US citizens. Most of them are not criminals and criminals aren't going to surrender their weapons.

It's just awful.

Well, no.  In two weeks this will not be fogotten

Aside from the fourth amendment, which we have here, there are around 200M guns registered.  I'm fuzzy on how these are going to be removed.  And as others have noted strict gun laws did not help in Norway, etc.

A common theme is always how people always say the perpetrator of these horrific crimes were known to be off balance.  I don't condone reporting people who act strangely.  But perhaps there is something to looking at early intervention.  I know the devil is in the details, I don't have an answer.  But I know bitching about how stupid Americans are is not the answer. 

I don't really hold out any hope for gun control reform in the US. I am also not convinced that it would be effective in reducing gun crime. It might reduce the tragic accidents, though.

One thing I will say is that I have nothing whatsoever in common with the gun lobby and other gun ownership apologists. I also have nothing in common with those that would shoot animals for "sport". It isn't that I have no understanding of the reasons they enjoy owning firearms and killing things, it is just that I share none of those motives, What they enjoy, I find absolutely abhorrent. Our values are very different.

Right to keep and bear arms is 2nd Amendment, not 4th (which is the guard against unreasonable search and seizure).

Yes.  My bad

I find the figure that 31 347 people were killed in the USA in firearms incidents in 2009 amazing.  By contrast in the UK the figure is around 50-60 per annum in a population perhaps 20% of the size.  I don't mind admitting I like plinking cans in the back garden with my air rifle and enjoy shooting clay too occasionally but the figures speak for themselves.

The simple reality is that it's too easy for people who are depressed or unhinged to get access to a gun in the USA and there is far too little control in terms of storage etc when you have got one. 

An appalling crime on the most innocent in society my thoughts and prayers are with those affected.  As a father to an amazing 7 year old girl I find such stories hit home rather more nowadays.

Jonathan

One thing I will say is that I have nothing whatsoever in common with the gun lobby and other gun ownership apologists. I also have nothing in common with those that would shoot animals for "sport". It isn't that I have no understanding of the reasons they enjoy owning firearms and killing things, it is just that I share none of those motives, What they enjoy, I find absolutely abhorrent. Our values are very different.

+1 More or less, I don't even understand why anyone would want to own a gun in the first place. Why own something that has the sole purpose of damaging living things?

steve

Appalling new story. It just keeps happening yet I'd be surprised if this sparks change of the US gun laws (or lack thereof). 

However in response to the above comments... Firearms can be very useful tools. Here in New Zealand we have a massive challenge to contain the numbers of introduced pest species that have an ongoing detrimental effect on our environment. If the numbers of animals such a Possums, Deer & Pigs (amongst many others) were not controlled, we would see an environmental disaster unfold before our eyes. Many unique species of both Flora and Fauna would perish. Firearms are one tool in a box of different strategies that can be used to address this issue and I think it's fair to say that in most cases shooting an animal is far more humane than poisoning which cause hours maybe days of agony or just as bad, traps that injure but do not kill immediately. I hunt occasionally for both recreational and environmental reasons, however if the targets were not introduced pest species I wouldn't have any interest in it. As is the case in NZ, there are ways of controlling firearms without banning them entirely. Tightening restrictions would be a step in the right direction without unnecessarily penalising responsible gun owners IMO. 

It' s the abject futility of the act and ensuing debate which I find so dispiriting.  Little kids for Gods sake. I cried because it' s all I could do.  G

Something posted elsewhere I have no knowledge of it validity :-

"Australia suffered 13 mass murders between 1981 & 1996. 
In16 years since gun reforms: zero. "

Also some media commentators have solved the problem,

"there is no prayer in public schools , therefore god is not wanted there , therefore god didn't protect them."

Here is a cost neutral job creation scheme that Obama will, hopefully, also get credit for; a whole new industry of administration in the registration and licensing (fees paid annually) of firearms.

I dunno, but are there more firearms than cars in the USA?

It is not just about guns, there are social and other factors in play.

For example some of these cases in the past have highlighted the lack of mental healh services in a nation where this is not freely available, coherent or 'joined up'.

Lack of access to health care is a major issue in the US criminal justice system.

Unstable individuals plus access to weaponry is the match and the flame.

Bruce

Bruce