Does an AV amp contribute anything to a 2 or 2.1 channel Naim system?

Hi Bob,

Only you can answer the question regarding the benefits of the video processing within your Sony AV amp. by routing the video signal from the BluRay directly to your TV. If the latter's a very recent model chances are that its own internal processing is pretty good anyway and as you note you won't notice much, if any, difference. You'd need to go to a dedicated video processor, such as a Lumagen, to notice any significant difference in picture quality and with "only" a 40" display it's debatable if it's worth the considerable investment. The AV amp., if you intend to hang on to it, makes a handy HDMI switching device I suppose, if you lack the inputs on the telly.

Unless you're using sound processing modes in the AV amp., (and I've never heard any I've liked on stereo) you'll almost certainly be better off getting your hands on a decent DAC & routing the signal through that, but then again if the ultimate aim is to go multichannel than personally I wouldn't bother, unless you want the DAC for other sources?

It's very difficult to advise in these circumstances because there are so many possible configurations. You really have to audition the alternatives in the context of your own system.

Hi Tony

Thanks for the comments - very helpful.  The BRP is about 18months old but I think the internal processing is fine for a 40" TV.  The screen colour calibration is not perfect but I don't think it warrants a dedicated video processor at this stage although if we go for a bigger screen eventually (SWMBO is not keen) then that would be an option - the Lumagen models certainly look impressive. I already have an MF V-Dac so will compare it to the Sony over the Christmas break.  

The Sony is a few years old and not a high end model but I will keep it for now in case I decide to try 5.1 in the future (I just need to get a well-loved pair of SL2s and then I can resign the n-Sats to rear speaker duties.

Good Morning Bob,

not wishing to hijack your thread but I hope you can clear something up for me...

I have the same AV Amp as yourself, am planning to connect it to my Supernait shortly and wonder if you can answer a quick query.

You mention that the STR DA3500 controls the volume when your 252 is set for unity gain. Could you tell me if you are using the pre-outs on the AV amp as the source for your 252 ? I ask because when I contacted Sony, I was adivsed that the pre-outs are fixed level and would require a volume control on the connected power amp. If you are using unity gain with the pre-outs then it would appear the info Sony gave me was wrong.

Thanks

Paul

Pre-out are usually variable; record-out are usually fixed, due to their different purposes.

Nick

Hi, Bob,

First, if you plan to add more speakers to your 2.0/2.1 system, long term, it will be counter-productive to remove the Sony AVR.  While there may actually be some sonic benefit to piping audio from your video sources directly into the Naim system, splitting the audio and video signals often leads to lip-sync issues. Practicality and your roadmap should rule.  I suspect that taking sound from the TV would be inferior to getting it from the Sony.  

Hi, Paul,

According to the Sony manual, Page 18 (US version), signal goes thru the built-in amp and to the pre-outs at the same time, so no special settings to make on the Sony (unlike my Denon AVR-4800, which requires me to choose).  

Pre-outs have to be variable, as they are fundamentally intended to output to a (bigger/better) power amp with no pre-amp section.  Unity-gain is the feature that allows the Naim pre to get out of the way, giving you direct connection to the Naim amp, and Volume control at the Sony.

Nonetheless, you should always test with Unity-gain OFF at first, to verify this safely, to be sure you are not confusing your line-outs with your pre-outs.

ATB,

Nick

HI Bob,

Thanks for the info, nice to see someone has had it working at least.. Will be giving it a try after the New Year dust settles.. Will keep you inform formed..

Hi Nick,

Yep, read the manual as well.. It was only the prompting of my Naim delear that made me check with Sony. As you say given the intended purpose of the Pre-Outs I was confused by their Support stating they were fixed. The Sub pre-out is not fixed afterall. Will try without Unity Gain turned on to confirm as you suggest.

Thanks again to both of you and hope you have a fun New Years eve...

Paul

Bob,

What sound comes from the TV to the AVR?  Terrestrial?  Cable and Sat boxes are better into the AVR, same as other video sources.  Even if you are using over-the-air broadcast, it would be better to set the TV level to Fixed and use the AVR to control Volume for all of your video sources.

All that said, per your original question, the only "benefit" to SQ the AVR provides to a 2.0/2.1 setup is the possibility of using DSP to create center-channel and other faux effects, some of which are nice; but sometimes they offend hifi purists.

IMHO, the AVR takes a small toll on SQ for unprocessed 2.0 playback; but the AV coordination and lip-sync benefits are worth it.  In my system, I also enjoy the FM from my AVP into the NAC.

Nick

Hi Nick

Thanks for your helpful replies. When I used the AVR with the Nait XS I connected the BRP and HDR to it by HDMI and then ran an HDMI out to the TV.  I connected the AVR pre-outs to the Nait XS by a 2 RCA - 5 pin DIN interconnect to the AV socket on the Nait XS, which was set to Unity Gain.  As I understand it this meant the sound was going from the AVR to the Nait XS and speakers while the video was sent to TV (probably "processed" by AVR as well).  I was able to control volume with the TV remote.  I also ran a chord optichord optical lead from the TV to the AVR which meant I could also play standard TV sound through the hifi setup.  I amended  the TV setup menu so that when the AVR was switched on the TV sound was directed through it but when the AVR was off the sound reverted to the normal TV speaker.

I am having problems getting sound from the AVR to my 252 - it may be difficulty in getting Unity Gain on the 252 but I think it is more likely to do with settings within AVR.  As I am likely to remain with just front speakers for the time being I am tempted to simplify matters and connect the BRP and  to the TV by HDMI and then connect TV sound via optichord to a DAC and then connect this to the 252 with the 2 RCA - 5 pin DIN interconnect.  I note your comment about possible  "lip sync" issues but I will see what happens.

Cheers

Hi, Bob,

I use a 4RCA <> DIN which gives me In and Out of my 552.  A common problem is that a 2RCA < DIN looks like a 2RCA > DIN.  So, if this lead never has worked for you, you might experiment and plug the RCA end into the AUX In on the AVR to see if it is able to play your CD or Turntable (as selected by the Bottom row of buttons on your 252) thru headphones plugged into the AVR.  Leave the DIN end in AV/Tape (#4) on the 252 which plays both directions, and is the only input capable of Unity Gain. 

If you hear music, you are using the wrong lead.  But if the same lead worked fine on the Nait XS, I am stumped, as the Sony manual seems to say there are no settings to put wrong.  

What happens if you connect analog out from the BRD and HDR to the AVR?  Are the AVR inputs set to Auto?

Good luck.

Nick

Hi Nick

You've got me thinking here.  I used my connected my AVR to the Nait XS with a 1m Chord lead I already had but following room re-organisation the 252 is sited several metres away from the AVR and I ordered a brand new 7m interconnect from a third party supplier - I told which direction I needed the cable to be but there is an off-chance that it has been reversed.  I will try latter tonight and let you know.

Thanks again

Bob

Nick

I tried your suggestion and tried to play from 252 to AVR but no sound through headphones so cable seems to be ok.  I then confirmed this by running an optical lead from my TV to a little Cambridge Audio DAC I have and then connected the 2 RCA to 5 pin DIN interconnect to this with the DIN socket into AV of 252 and I got sound so I think the cable is ok.

TV sound through the DAC is ok but not ideal as I cannot control the volume from Sony Remote.  In addition there is no automatic switching between TV and Hifi speakers so I have to set them manually on Sony menu (SWMBO is not amused by this).  On the positive side there doesn't seem to be any noticeable lip sync problems so far.

When I can summon more willpower I will start again with the AVR and go through the menus and settings again to see if I can identify the problem. 

I've not tackled the suggestion in your last sentence yet but will do so when I plug the AVR into the system.

Thanks again

Bob

Bob,

The new cable still needs to prove it works in SOME direction.  Try plugging it directly into the BRD analog outs.

You know, I smiled when you said you thought bypassing the AVR would, in some way, "simplify" your setup.  I have a SWMBO too!  

Nick

Hi Gents,

a quick update... All is working as desired, AVR pre-outs connected to SNait AV inputs with unity gain enabled, volume is controlled by AVR. 

Thanks again for your guidance.

Paul