A separate network for music

The first question has to be why?

Jonas,  can you explain what you mean by a seperate network? Do you mean a seperate VLAN, a completely physically unconnected network or something else. Also what do you mean by a 'y cable  from the wall into the router'.

There are some technical / performance benefits *sometimes* creating a seperate VLAN, but you generally need none consumer equipment.

Simon

Hi Jonas,

I can definately recommend a seperate network especially if you consider Hi-Res streaming. With the separete network you won't interfer with have Internet connections for games etc and never get drop-outs when playing music. Just connect a Cat 5e/6 cable from your main Switch into a second one where you can hook up your streaming gear.

Iver

Unless you have very special requirements or reasons for this step, there is no point to it.

• It will not have any kind of influence on SQ.
• The internet bandwidth remains the same for your household.
• If you have your HiFi equipment wired with patch cables, dropouts will not occur even with heavy wifi traffic on behalf of the rest of your family.

So you will just be adding extra boxes, extra complexity and hassle. Leave it be.

If you have your HiFi equipment wired with patch cables, dropouts will not occur even with heavy wifi traffic on behalf of the rest of your family.

This is incorrect.

Both wired and the WiFi networks are taxing on modem/router's processing power.  Heavy WiFi downloads or uploads (particularly) will increase the frequency of dropouts and lost data packets in wired network, too.

Bobby

True, the loads do add up. But the volume which can go over wifi is marginal compared to the ethernet capacity. Therefore even a max wifi load will leave the ethernet more or less unimpressed.

It is not about the ethernet capacity it is about the (often very limited) modem/router processing power which, if pushed, will certainly slow the modem down and, hence, affect the ethernet throughput as well.

No, it is rather more complicated than that.

Iver, thats not a seperate network, its the same network.

dzambolaja, what you on about? Slow the modem down?

simply installing a switch will benefit most people. There is a very limited use to a seperate network, which will only introduce complication not better musical satisfaction.

most peoples issues stem from a shit upnp server, the network has little to do with it.

Modem processing power? All a home-use modem has to do is transfer IP packets between the internet provider and the home network. I don't see what kind of processing might slow the modem down. Local music streaming has close to zero impact on the modem processing, apart for the occasional request on external meta data providers, which any crappy modem can perfectly handle.

Jonas: focus on a well known and well documented steaming server and don't worry about the network stuff and resulting headaches

Jonas< I take it from the replies you dont really want a seperate network. Therefore as Gary has said use a switch to connect your NAS/UPNP streamer and network player. In a single network you are not using your router (routers are used to connect one network to another - like a provate LAN to the internet.) Therefore other than DHCP functions which may reside on your router, your router is benign for home network streaming on a single network. Some consumer routers have rather sub standard switch ports built in which can cause problems - so as most people suggest here - use a seperate purpose built switch and you really won't/shouldn't have problems.

Also as Gary says most network performance issues are  down to poor UPNP server software, wifi or ethernet over mains streaming connections. Just avoid the last two - definitely the last one  - and use a switch to connect like a Netgear or a Linksys - get a decent UPNP server (I use Asset) et viola trouble free streaming and you can enjoy your music.

(PS if you have very busy network whith much broadcast frame trafffic (most homenetworks aren't) then you can can get a slight sound improvement (think like slightly pulling the DIN conenctor out from the pre amp)  by having a seperate LAN with the Naim ND players - but I will leave that to the advanced class - as I am sure that will affect less than 1% of users if that - its just I am one of them...)

garyi, I am not sure what are you on about???  Modems do slow down when they work hard.  Try to hook up several heavy users and monitor the WiFi connection speed and lost packets.  The same for ethernet.

I have the latest Cisco modem which, when used hard by my household members simultaneously, warms up and starts having drop outs over the ethernet (my Uniti is on the other end).  I then installed a Cisco router to take WiFi duty and left my modem to do wired job only.  The result was:  no dropouts over the ethernet and better WiFi, too.

Totally incorrect.  Network quality is very important to minimise packet data losses.

And why do you think that one of the first things in modem troubleshooting is simply the 'restart'?  Touch the heavily used crappy modem and feel how it heats up.  And what happens to overheated electronics? Errors.

Bobby

Modems don't slow down the network, you are talking about available bandwidth. Unless your modem is unable to deal with the amount of bandwidth from the WAN then its not the issue and you are confused.

The switch is a great solution as its usually doing its one thing very well. Free devices delivered with your ISPs are usually trying to do a number of things, pretty poorly. 

Jonas as  Gary says use a switch and you have no probs. Try and not let the banter confuse you. Packet loss and throughput are two different things.  Our streaming protocols use something called TCP which if there was packet loss causes no issue at all, but it needs the throughput which is what your wired Ethernet gives you. Honestly keep it simple and it works well.

By the way unless you have lots of applications all sharing the same network using heavy broadcast traffic you shouldn't have many issues. One way to crudely check is look at the lights on a switch. If the lights on the whole twinkle mostly seperately you have probably not an issue, if they nearly always twinkle concurrently then you have a lot of broadcast traffic and it is worth looking into.

Simon

I have the similar number of modem users at home, too.

Get a router and transfer all WiFi users to it and leave the NAS and the Naim wired to the modem.  No way consumer grade modems can handle WiFi, NAS traffic and ethernet streaming at the same time.

The NAS itself may clog the modem.

Good luck.

Bobby

Jonas, consensus (from me) don't worry about router and don't use it's switchports, get any capable switch like a netgear, Linksys.. And bedone with it.

may if you are unlucky Nstream doesn't work well or loses sync with the naim, then you might need to put an Airport Express off the switch for the wifi. ( this is because upnp uses muticast and some poor consumer wifi access points on Internet routers don't support multicast properly )

Bobby, that's the point I was trying to make A modem is a modem and it doesn't handle Wifi, Nas traffic or anything. The fact that your internet provider sells you a box and calls it a "Modem" is a simplification. Most of these boxes include a modem, a wifi controller, a router, a switch, a dhcp server and quite a few other things, too. But the modem itself barely has to transport IP packets between you and your ISP, nothing more

Cheers,

Christian

Jonas, you'll find excellent articles on Wikipedia about these matters

Chris, my modem-router-DHCPserver-NASserver-WiFistation Cisco/Linksys 'box' has all these functions, but trying to run them all at the same time degrades its overall performance.  This  "box" still has a common microprocessor/controller and a common (fairly limited) power supply.  Individual circuits for WiFi, ethernet, TCP/IP, USB/NAS server etc. all fight for processor time and power supply.  WiFi is particularly taxing on power supply.  The same principle applies to Naim single box vs separates, internal vs external power supply etc., after all.

The chap has many users and he will be much better off relieving the 'Box' from the WiFi duty and letting it do WAN/LAN and modem jobs while having a separate router to handle WiFi.

I did the same and I do not experience ethernet drop outs at my Uniti end any longer.  And the WiFi network works like the charm as well.

Cheers

Bobby