NDS/XPS2 v NDS/555PS - is it worth the expense?

" yes " in a word

I did this comparison a month ago, on the end of a 202 hicap/250.

The 555 just makes the music flow, very analogue it doesn't jump out at you. Sounds like it had massive head room with a 202, I feel the 202 was a bottle neck to a degree.

I have a Ndx/ Xps and like it very much, however the Nds/ 555 is my next move " when my finances recover from my latested purchase of a 282 ".

The 555 didn't hit me straight away, but when you start to absorb what it doing its a bit special.

"worth" is difficult to determine without an understanding of someone's financial circumstances, however if you substitute "better"' then you will get an unequivocal yes from me. The NDS was developed with the 555PS DR, so the pairing is as good as Naim could make it. To my ears it's the best digital replay out there, but is it worth £13k... Please refer to my earlier point...

CDI,

   Your opening comment---- you are pretty happy with your set up. 

Leave it there !

+1 ... always better to be happy than right 

Thanks chaps, I have little time to listen to music and have to weigh up £3k on car and insurance to allow my daughter to attend the best A level college or to upgrade a power supply? A no brainer, the sound is already superb. 

I recently purchased a NDS and Naim ripping machine, a NAS, laptop, etc.  My power supply is the 555PS that I previously used with my CD555 player.  So far, I have ripped nearly 2,000 cds.  This has been far more work than I anticipated.  I should also note that apart from digital source, I do not have any othe Naim components (I have a tube-based system).

The metadata for a lot of classical cds is incomplete, inaccurate, or not what is really helpful.  This is not the fault of any particular gear, but, the Naim software program is also not that well thought out and user friendly which makes it somewhat difficult to correct problems or overcome limitations.  For example, one has to assign each cd just one genre--one has to either guess or search multiple genre for certain music, one cannot flexibly search in wide categories or narrower categories depending on preference, etc.  The experience would have been less stressful if Naim had even the barest of manual for dealing with metadata.

That said, I really do like the greater access to my collection afforded by browsing on an iPad, vs. squinting at endless shelves of cds.  I also enjoy making temporary playlists, something that is very easy to do with the iPad.

The sound, compared to the CD555/555PS combination is a mixed bag.  I like the detail, clarity and the wider soundstage afforded by the NDS, but, this is accompanied by a drier sound and an artificial sounding brittleness (an "edge" to the initial attack of notes).  Overall, I prefer the CD555 sound (more natural transients and more weight to the sound), but I much prefer the convenience of the NDS.  This added convenience, which makes it easier for me to "rediscover" music that I would otherwise ignore in my collection, outweights my concerns over the sound. 

As did I with a succession of Naim CD Players. If you can find a "click point" it can be a very beguiling combination.  Depends on the toobs of course.

So we have to sit tight and wait for ND555 

Can you disclose your amps and speakers?

I am currently running a custom made linestage using 310 and 311 tubes and input and output transformers sourced from old Western Electric gear.  My amp is, essentially, a rebuilt Western Electric 133A (uses Western Electric 348 and 349 tubes).

My speakers are a mashup of the bass cabinet and Fostex bullet tweeter from a Strumenti Acustici Precisione J2001 speaker (twin 12" woofers in an Onken bass reflex cabinet), and a horn midrange with a Western Electric 713B driver.

I do expect that Naim will, some day, come up with a 500 series server when they have more experience and can develop a model worthy of such status.  However, I am a bit concerned that the current sound of the NDS reflects a current "trend" rather than any compromises in design and implementation.  A lot of new gear, particularly sound from computer servers, sound this way. 

I just got my NDS/555DR.  I would agree with Larry's assessment, but I am learning like all Naim products, set up is crucial.    The 555DR is a must... a friend is running his with 2x555PS's and is getting great results.  

I'm going to give it a month of break-in before I make my final conclusions on the sound, but I find myself impressed with the resolution and detail.  The CD555 could never extract detail like the NDS.   The convenience of file based music selection is also a big step forward.  I am listening to CDs I have not played in years.  

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your point on NDS/DR combination. My wife is gonna love you making me want to spend more!!! I'd be interested in difference with DR on NDS and also X 2 555 DR's on NDS.

Yes it is worth it in sound quality terms but whether it is worth the financial outlay is for you alone to decide. You also need to consider the rest of the system. For example using the XPS2 and spending the cost of the 555ps elsewhere might bring about  more improvement, although the "source first" principle generally applies.

I am fortunate to have 2 x 555 dr supplies on my NDS. I used my old 555ps initially and then a new dr version. I then added a second 555 dr. At each stage the improvement in sound quality was there to be heard but the overall cost  --- well that's really scary.

At least if you get the NDS you can improve the power supplies in stages if and when funds permit.

You ideally need to get a dealer to bring along the supplies to your home and make the comparisons yourself, preferably over a couple of days to enable everything to warm up and for you to make a longer term judgement rather than an instant response one way or the other.

Hi Graham.

My current system consists of 552/555 amp/555 P/SU driving NDS. Guess the DR upgrade is on my radar. At the moment it just sounds so nice I'm reluctant to add/change anything....if it works...

It's taken an age to get here with this system, and sounding so good. i just want to enjoy it and not go through the upgrade cost and "run in". 

What is good to know is that improvements are available should i get that itch. Something my wallet dreads!

Thank you Graham for your insight.

Graham, 

Can you describe the difference in sound between one and two 555DRs on your NDS?  

Chris and Dustysox,

If your system is revealing enough then I would simply say if you recall the improvements you got when you added a power supply in the first place or swapped for a "better" one then it is more of the same sort of thing. With my 552/500 the dr upgrades were really a no brainer.

The Dr upgrade is like a completely "new" power supply and improved on my 555ps and my 552 ps. I think the increase in performance is phenomenal.   I commented on the dr upgrades in the latest Naim Connections magazine so you can see I am rather biased towards them.

The NDS and single 555 dr ps was better than my previous NDX/XPS2/nDAC/555ps

Adding the second DR supply again brought more of the same. I am not good at describing these things but to my ears  the sound is now more "musical" i.e more natural with space around voices and instruments and a quieter background. It is easier to follow the music and to sense the emotion in the performance. 

But, ultimately, I still feel with this sort of expense you need to listen and judge for yourself.

Dustysox If you are happy with what you have then perhaps you should not listen to the dr upgrade, as you will probably want it!

Graham, 

How long did your NDS take to break-in and sound good?  

Chris, It sounded pretty good straight out of the box when I hooked it up to my "old" 555ps. Certainly better than the NDX/XPS2/nDac/555. I then swapped to the new 555 dr and this sounded a trifle bright to start with but then my 555ps was well run in and warm when first connected.However, the dr was clearly doing its thing and was a major step up from the original 555ps.

Out of curiosity, I added my "old" 555 ps to the digital side as an experiment and decided I "needed" a second dr one - greedy or what! Fortunately, James at Tomtom said I could hang on to my old 555 for a while and as a result I ended up ordering a new dr one from him.

The combo settled down quite quickly and my second dr arrived after about three weeks.  So what with the various changes I can't give you a precise timescale re the NDS itself but I would say a couple of days, bearing in mind my gear is on 24/7 unless I go away or a thunderstorm is starting.

All my cds are now stored in the loft so my room looks better too.

I then added a 555ps dr to the analogue side, leaving my old 555ps on digital, this sounded significantly more natural and far less digital.

That's how I did it too, based on advice from Jason at Naim. I agree the second 555 ps is the icing on the cake!

We are both very fortunate in having such a setup and whilst it was obviously worth it for us I wonder if it helps answer the orignal question as to wether it is worth it for CDi?

He hasn't come back with any comments for a while.

Had to ++1 this. I have a Stillpoints component stand underneath my nDAC and it makes a huge difference. So much so that anyone thinking of upgrading their source should go the Stillpoints route first. I'm still astonished and in disbelief.

Well, I bought one!. For me having two dr supplies made the NDS sound even more fantastic. Some did this with the 555 cd player.

Like any upgrade It is for others to decide if they feel the improvement is worth the expense.

Sorry for the tangent but I didn't start it 

I added Sonority under my DAC and XPS2. As with Graham and Vince, the improvement I noticed was huge. So yes, another option to consider.

Arun