HMV are deaded too.

No surprise, as you say. A big shame though they've a long history

They are not dead yet, talks are on-going, you'll have to keep your party poppers in the drawer for a bit longer.

It had to be a matter of time. FT report they may go into admin tomorrow after their suppliers refused a proposal for a £300m rescue package.  

The writing is on the wall,  the HMV type shop with only CD like material is dead. Maybe CD & DVD sales on the high street will only be in shops like Boots, unfortunately they will not have stock of any specialist stuff,  their buying policy is top 20 stuff only now & that probably won't change. 

This will push us further to the new market leaders that we have all made profitable by buying cheaply & more conveniently on www.   I guess we ended up with what we deserve.  Maybe it might do more to bring on the end of CD & promote download/streaming, 

Then maybe the specialist shops like we have with the side street vinyl record dealers will handle more CD & DVD,  maybe one day we will be browsing 2nd hand "collectable" CD's.   

The remaining independent record shops may survive, but I doubt we'll see many new ones. The cost of buying and carrying stock makes it difficult to start from scratch. 

Keith

Very sad news indeed.  Without doubt HMV is about the only shop that I enjoy on the high street and I have always loved going into their stores to browse and buy.  The worrying thing is that I discovered many artists over the years by browsing the racks at HMV and I know of no way to do this via the internet.  How many great albums will I miss now that the high street record shops are disappearing?

Until the past 12 months I would say I bought 70% of my CD's and DVD's from HMV stores but over the past 12 months this has reduced to probably 30%.  I guess we have reaped what we have sown as consumers but it makes me very sad indeed that my Daughter and I might not be able to go into a record store and be dazzled by the riches on display in future years.  Browsing Amazon by comparison is a complete chore and bore.

I do wonder if a different approach might have worked - perhaps HMV needed huge out of town superstores where rents are much lower and they can stock in depth.  Then put in a coffee bar with wi-fi, lots of headphone listening stations add in a good quality hi-fi/home cinema dealer through a glass wall because lets face it the two are inextricably linked.  How many music lovers might be turned on to Naim or Arcam etc if they heard what it is capable of in a music store?

Lets hope that there is a way forward for HMV, thoughts are with their staff.

Jonathan

On the Jessop thread people are extolling the virtues of on-line buying. The HMV problem is highlighting that many people still like the touchy, feely experience of high street shopping, even if they then go and buy on-line.

I understand that the record producing companies have now woken up with some concern that without a high street outlet, sales of ALL recorded music will fall including on-line sales. This might be of concern to Naim and others as well.

So the record producing companies are considering buying HMV in order to avoid a near total collapse of their industry. Perhaps they will use HMV to "showcase" their product and expect to deliver most sales on-line either through their own warehouse or indirectly via Amazon and others.

Cheers

Don

A few issues stand out for me here.

HMV has been bouncing along the floor for many years now. Like many UK companies they've been allowed to continue to operate and managed to protect those thousands of jobs for which every employee will be very grateful. However, IMO, they have continued to be mis-managed.

I've been buying music for 30 years, rarely in the last 10 to 15 years have I used HMV (apart from last minute Christmas pressies and the like). Yet again they fall between the stools of not being specialist enough and not being cheap enough and maybe just haven't taken the right business decisions. It's not enough to blame the rise in online shopping either, HMV have a website. Do I use it? No. It's a horrible site to visit and is clearly targeted at the same buyers as the retail shops. What's the point?

I note that a couple of the high ups at HMV came from Jessops too...

In Peterborough they had a dark and dingy store which was a pain to wander around and they simply stacked up loads of populist stuff around the counter and just wanted to flog that. They then took over the old Zavvi which was the old Virgin and turned that into a mess too!

I think they've just been allowed to bumble along with no clarity as to what the business should look like and they've chosen an unwise path which other companies do better and have been doing better for years. It's about time it was brought to a halt.

On a positive note, I don't think it will die properly. Manufacturers and distributors need a high street presence so something will rise from the ashes I'm sure. They still need to change it to work effectively long term though.

And that's the nature of business, the nature of life. Darwinism in action if you like. The strong survive, the weak die out. When they do, something else comes along to take their place and is stronger. Needs to be stronger and better to survive.

JW

I think 2 words in your post sums up HMV....mis-managed.

Mista h

Indeed - but not for many, many years (15 I guess).  I drove through Wickford High street a few weeks ago and noticed the Adrians sign still hanging there.  Frankly I was surprised it was still open but then it's always been a class act.  Maybe if I ever finish work early one day (some hope!) I'll take a long detour via Adrians.

Without a good high street presence, I think even Amazon will struggle to make music sales. I am no expert here, so this is obviously IMHO.

And as you rightly note, that high street presence needs to be different if it is to survive.

Cheers

Don

Just popped into the Oxford Street store (where I picked up seven Blu-Rays for £46!) - it was heaving! Interestingly there were a number of camera crews and journalists hanging around outside. This story is big news it seems.

And so it should be. If HMV goes under there will be no music/DVD retailing chains left. I remember in the 1980s, Oxford Street had two Virgins, HMV, Smithers & Leigh, plus Tower round the corner in Piccadilly Circus and the independent stores of Berwick and Poland Streets.

I did occasionally go into HMV but to be quite honest their vinyl section was a bit pathetic, and even the CD selection wasn't really up to scratch given the size of the store. Why would you bother going there when you could go to Sister Ray or Soul Jazz or Rough Trade East or Ray's, where you'd get a better selection, more knowledgeable staff and a better shopping experience - and not necessarily for more money either.

As Jamie and others have pointed out, HMV was/is just badly managed. They were caught in the middle, and didn't really know what they were for. There were too many stores, too many of them in the wrong place, many of them too small; instead of concentrating on a broad and deep music offer they got sidetracked into selling top 20, tech and games and gangsta rap headphones - stuff they didn't really do with any distinction. Their online offer was OK, but no great shakes. That was the problem.

One thing I did notice today, the customers were full of good wishes for the staff, which means there is a residual affection for the grand old dame of music retail.

Given a decent management and a clear strategy perhaps the story isn't over yet.

I think a revamped, much smaller HMV has a place, even into today's world. A few large stores in appropriate locations, with unmatched range (especially in specialist areas like jazz, classical, soundtracks, World, blues etc) and customer experience, staffed by expert enthusiasts would get my custom, especially if they had a lot of vinyl.

I may be wrong ... but I think part of the problem is that of corporate greed.

Last year's Christmas and new year figures showed while not impressive profit a reasonable profit especially if they got rid of some of their badly performing stores (which they did do).  But then, instead of thinking "well we're making some profits with our core business (entertainment software) we'll concentrate on that" the management "oh, we're not making enough money, lets try to move a large part of our stores over to selling "gadgets" instead" ... the result of which is their core market wander off and buy from Tescos and Amazon instead.

Eloise

Jonathan,

We must have posted above at the same time. I know you bought your ski kit on-line and  were very pleased with the equipment and the service. For the avoidance of doubt I wish to make it clear that you didn't browse ski-kit in the high street before buying on-line - but i know of a fair number of other people who do just that (not necessarily with ski-kit, but you catch my drift).

With hindsight, I wish I had made my post much clearer, especially so since our two posts are co-incidentally adjacent.

Cheers

Don

Just back from town (Bristol) and went into HMV. Felt a bit like a vulture but still spent over £50 on CDs. Browsing through it was clear why they are struggling, Whilst there were a few well priced bargains most of the cheap stuff was mass market pap, If you looked for specific albums or anywhere in the World, Blues or Jazz sections most of the CDs were still £12 plus with many £16 and  £18. For example £16 for a live album from 20 years ago and all the Zappa were £15 for bog standard releases of the early albums.

Someone is being greedy there and I felt less bad about the company though still feel sorry for the staff - I hope they all get jobs with decent companies. It's hard to have sympathy with the record industry in their fight against piracy when they charge those sort of prices for old music.

Problem with HMV, they lost sight of who their customer was, trying to be all things to all men, selling mediocre music, chart stuff, gaming, tee shirts, books, DVD's,. Too much stuff and not much of it any good or different to other sellers. On the music front, very difficult to carry a wid range of stock. Most artists were served by only one or two from their catalogues, which probably included a greatest hits package. Got to be five or more years since I bought a cd from HMV, they just never had anything that I wanted to buy. Sad really 'cause years back it was a different story.

And my daughter works for them...

I hope they can stump up her maternity pay.

steve

Hi all,

Unfortunately the management have not swayed from the idea of selling stuff at a premium price whilst Amazon et all undercut them. Had they established a download store or better Internet presence sooner they may not be in the mess they are now. I suppose Amazon were always going have the upper hand as they pay almost no corporation tax so until the government changes that, any competitor is going to have a tough time price matching.

Shame for the staff as another 4,000 people are now out of a job.

N

Don,

No problem at all - completely understand.  I really do hope HMV find a way to keep afloat, their shops while clearly not perfect were still my favourite places on the high street.  Haven't been to one this week but have a craving to...

Would be very interested to see if a new out of town megastore concept with attached coffee bar and hi-fi shop could work.  It would certainly be attractive to me!

Jonathan

And now Blockbuster too.  I haven't used them since about 2002, so again no surprise.

Tony

To be quite honest Tony I've always wondered how Blockbuster have survived as long as they did (I think they must have survived on renting out games). Their failure to get on the net was catastrophic. In a world with Love Film (an excellent service, good value and a huge sellection of titles) or Netflix, Blockbuster's poorly-stocked and expensive stores just couldn't compete.

I think the last time I got a film from BB was in about 2002.

I think HMV will be missed far more than BB.

Are Blockbuster not an American outfit ?

Mista H

PS    Good luck tonight Kevin i will be watching and supporting you.