Lance Armstrong admits to doping

Ooops! Many apologies...

Cheers, Tin Tin , Salute!

Like Winky and Bruce I wish Lance would go away forever.

However, some reasons for empathy. His was nonetheless an unbelievable achievement against a field of mainly cheats in the pro cycling circus. In fact, amphetamine use etc had been rife in cycling for years going back to the potions the top Italians used to take. I have ridden past Tom Simpson's memorial on Ventoux several times and so feel that at least no-one has died this time.

Furthermore some great fund-raising for cancer and having to beat a pretty severe case of it himself may explain some of his laser-focus / arrogance. He is the witch on the ducking stool because he was the winner and his demeanour irks people. What is more interesting to me is a) how complicit the authorities were and b) how they will avoid this ever happening again.

I don't like the witch-hunt business as it reminds me of the Ben Johnson story. Yes guilty but the only guilty party??

So good riddance Lance but it was what it was IMO.

It was too much to bear after a few minutes Winky.

I did not watch it.  Screw the whole bunch of them.  Marky Mark, you sum it up well.  Cheating is not justified by other cheats.  Still, the fault lies with both the "Win at any cost" mentality, the money that funds it, and professional sports in general.  And, as I said before, U.S. collegiate athletics is going the same way--I don't follow "amateur" sports in the UK or on the Continent, so I don't know about it there.  As for me, I once cared greatly for collegiate sports here, as well as professional baseball and American football.  No longer.  And with regard to my once-beloved Texas Longhorns, I look back to the days when I knew some of the National Championship team kinda sorta well.  Even then, there were little things that went on which to my way of thinking, though not illegal, were certainly less than appropriate.  I no longer care about any of them and intend to boycott all of it.  What the hell, we have good music to which we can listen!

Best regards,

Russ

"By the way, does anyone know why Oprah keeps pulling that "tragic" face?"

Because as Winky pointed out, she's a publicity whore, and in addition to that, a bad actress.

Her network has been in the crapper since it started 2 years ago - this is the perfect foil for her to try and get it some relevance, and help Lance try and do some fiscal damage control.

I say intercourse 'em both. (And the penguin.)

Can't help wondering if Lance isn't a fall-guy here, even if he deserves what he is getting.  Not that he isn't personally responsible, but a figurehead like him can easily be a pawn, too.  An entity with the power to control and manipulate a guy like him deserves scrutiny.  Success like his takes more than talent, ambition and drugs; it takes a network, and lots of money.

I think Lance is merely a guy who didn't heed the old adage: "Be nice to people on the way up, because you might meet the same people on the way back down."

I think it's an almost unanimous consensus that as a person he's a real d-bag (in addition to a cheater and liar), and now he's just reaping what he's sown.

When I originally made this post, I was hoping to get a perspective on where Lance's cheating falls relative to his competitors.  I've brought up Alberto Contador, someone mentioned Miguel Indurain.  No takers.

I expected a lot of Lance bashing, but putting aside all his complex efforts to deny his guilt, is he terribly different from the other top competitors that cheated during his era?  Didn't all the cheaters think they could get away with it and then took that route to gain an advantage?  But if all the top guys are doing it, where's the advantage?  It's a mess.  Too bad because it is such a beautiful sport.  The TDF is by far the most colorful and spectacular sporting event on earth.  It's so simple in concept but so complex in execution.  So many races within one.  On one hand I love it and I can't help but watch it.  All the while, in the back of my mind I can't help but wonder who's getting away with what in the designer doping and detection arms race.

Dear Joe,

Many people do follow cycling at the professional level, and I never have, because it seemed to me to be a scandalous activity and and something I could take seriously. In fact it went further than that for me as it was a positive bar to me ever buying a nice cycle, or any of the proper clothing and so forth, though a good friend of mine [the original owner of my Carlton] said he thought that I would have been competitive in time trials at the amateur level. He has refused point blank to race me these days! We are both 51, but I am still in poor riding condition with my right leg. I hope to regain my form this year!

You are correct, in my view, that the "problem" is far wider than than just Armstrong. And yes, these cases need just as much examination as he is getting just now ...

ATB from George

One of the contradictions in the interview that struck me is that he felt he wasn't cheating as this meant he would have an unfair advantage over his competitors.  I take this to mean he believed/knew all his main rivals were doing the same.  

Yet in the same interview he refers to him winning as almost a foregone conclusion - as "phoning it in" (or something along those lines).  He openly admits he knew he was going to win.

Something doesn't quite add up...

Chaps

This cases illustrates the difference between British and American cultures.

In Britain, if you are caught cheating, you are expected to take your punishment like a man and bleating about it is considered to be bad taste.  You keep a low profile, do some charity work and seek to attone for your misdemeanours.

In America, you can get yourself on TV and apologise,  preferably break down in tears and blab like a baby. and finally spend a few weeks in rehab, full of remorse and self pity.  You then come back absolved of all sin, expecting to be forgiven.

Naturally you then write a book, appear on TV and make millions.

Regards

Mick

Mick, 

Priceless. Good effort. 

I would argue with you, but I hate to lose!

Americans have the attention span of a gnat.

Although the last guy who pulled this "vehement denial for years, and then come clean, and expect all to be forgiven" was Pete Rose, and he was positively excoriated by his former supporters who had believed him.

Mick, on first reading your post--seeing the comparison, I felt somewhat defensive for America and Americans.  However, I have to say that your analysis of our collective reaction rewarding bad behavior with money and fame is quite correct--and quite deplorable.  I guess I had just assumed that Britain had by now followed our bad example.  If not, then I am pleased. 

On another front, I too often lump all Europeans together and when I see numbers killed in soccer riots, I have assumed that this happens on the Island as well as the Continent.  Is that true?  I have to add that we Americans never kill each other in riots at the actual games.  We wait until after the game to do so with drive-by shootings.

Best regards,

Russ

People in Britain still buy Jeffrey Archer books, and he got sent to jail for lying. (Frankly I don't see why this shouldn't happen to Armstrong also.)

At least no one is claiming that LA cannot actually ride a bike - Archer's books make Dan Brown seem like Baudelaire.

If people want a definition of the psychopathic personality type they could do worse than watch those interviews.

Not unique amongst high achievers in various fields of course.

Bruce

Lots of good discussions going on here.  King Size, I read the same parts of the interview in my local paper and had the same reaction as you; befuddled .

An interesting point is to think about historically, why the TDF was started.  To sell newspapers back in the day.  Media attention has always surrounded the event, and now that attention is year-round with all the scandal.  Whether cheaters are involved or not, 110 years later the TDF still is a massive media seller.

If I understand correctly, the winner of the race will be the rider who can process efficiently the most oxygen.

The goals of the various doping technique is either to facilitate oxygen intake, increase the number of red cells to transport it, or build more muscles to burn it: is that right?

All this is really mechanical, and also probably interesting from a medical standpoint.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, cycling is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little skills other than the strictly physical abilities.

In the end, maybe the solution is to create two categories of competition: with and without doping. 

Doping could become a branch of medicine and an official field of research and experimentation.

I assume you're joking.  Even if we were talking about informed adult riders, I think there would be ethical issues with your proposal.  Besides, cycling in the TDF is largely a team sport and rather sophisticated.

What is ironic (or perhaps stupid) is that "epo" has a known side effect of stimulation of certain kinds of cancers (although testicular is not on the short list) and in patients with cancer who need epo for myelosuppression (i.e., bone marrow damage) resulting from cancer treatment, as soon as the hematocrit (which measures the volume of red blood cells in the blood) is above a certain level, you are to stop the drug because of the potential for stimulating cancer (and a host of other dangerous side effects.)

In fact, patients being treated with chemotherapy that causes myelosuppression should NOT be treated with these types of drugs (of which there are several) if the anticipated outcome of the chemo is actual cure.  In other words it is only to be used on those who are not likely to recover, and this helps them in the interim.  But the risk of negative effects is so great that is is not recommended for those whose treatment plan anticipation is full recovery.

Again, after looking death square in the eye, you think he would be averse to anything that could bring his health down & possible cause his cancer to return, and you think he would have an learned to be nicer to other people, by which many, many accounts seem to indicate he is not...unless there's something in it for him.  Hmmm, sounds like a career in politics could be next.

Lance Armstrong just admitted to using performance enhancing drugs to help show remorse while on Oprah.

I think they must have been homoeopathic. They didn't work at all.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, football is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than kicking a ball to each other...

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, tennis is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than hitting a little ball back and forth across a net until someone misses.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, athletics is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than the ability to run faster than other people.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, golf is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than hitting a little white ball into a hole.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, hockey is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than the ability to skate and hit the puck.

Thinking about it, if we remove the doping part, boxing is in itself a rather unsophisticated sport, requiring little other than the ability to knock one's opponent senseless.

I could go on. They are ALL unsophisticated and pointless on some angle. And at the professional level, they are ALL rotten to the core. That's what money does to sport.