NDS Vs Klimax DS/1

Cue AMA ...

I shall be doing that very thing this Friday. I have no preconceptions or prejudices either way and I'm looking forward to comparing them.

Very interested by your comparison  

Not again ...

This has already been done.  Opinions vary.  Me?  I bought the NDS/555PSDR, although the KDS was very good too.  Go and listen for yourself.

The issue of reliability must also be taken into consideration.

Gregg

"The issue of reliability must also be taken into consideration."

Gregg

What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying Naim isn’t reliable? Naim  has an unmatched and well deserved reputation for reliability. They even provide service for products 30 plus years after there production date.

Howie

What makes you think it was Naim he was referring to?  I have been told by a Linn dealer that they, Linn, operate a strict ten year service life for all their electronics.  Meaning that any problems after that time period and Linn will not necessarily offer any service.  True?  Well that is what I was told.

What I do know is Naim offer an exceptional whole of life service for even the really old stuff.  To me that alone makes me want to deal with Naim. I suspect this might be a major plus as far as used prices are concerned. You can buy second hand with total confidence.

Just my two pennies.

Richard

Given my experiences with the NDX/555PS vs KDS/1 here at home I'd say that the KDS/1 was remarkably easy to set-up and update and worked quickly and flawlessly every time. The NDX/555PS does not.

I would still choose the Naim combo again though  The KDS/1 is a remarkable sounding machine but for all its quality is not for me. If I had not done the comparison, I probably would be delighted with the Linn.

The KDS/1 is a very 'analogue' sounding player and seems to dig out more musical information.

Another consideration may be that it is a single box compared to the two box Naim solution.

You really need to hear both in your system to make an informed decision.

If you have a dedicated spur for your Naim gear you do not want to plug the KDS/1 into the same spur. It will sound better being plugged into the house ring main. Naim power supplies and Linn switch mode power supplies do not sound good when plugged into the same power strip/spur. Again if you have the opportunity play around with where they are plugged into the mains and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Both are superb players.

I've compared both.

At the end I've bought the NDS.

Listen to both.

Both are great player

My NDS took less than 5 minutes to set up.  I was impressed how easily it connected to my network  and started making music (wireless & wired).  From my experience it is a truly plug and play device. 

So to some up the NDS loses a smidge of detail to the KDS/1 but with less musicality - which the NDS has more of?

If this is the case i'd prefer to stay with Naim since it really is all about foot tapping.

Easy Howie - relax.

I am not questioning Naim's "well deserved reputation .... for providing service".  Look at my profile - I have owned (and continue to own) quite a bit of Naim gear.

Reliability means the ability for units to play without problems.  I had a CDX2 die on the first day of delivery.  My CDS3 needed a new transport after two months.  My CD555 did not have any problems however I know others whose units gave them (and continue to give them) fits.

There have been issues with the digital players and the NDS has not been free from problems.  This needs to be factored into the equation when demoing and choosing equipment.  Thus the reason for my comment above.

I have not had the opportunity to demo the NDS however I have heard that its performance is stellar (there is a reason I kept my 555PS - but I am waiting for the ND555 ) 

I purchased a KDS/1 right after the NDS announcement.  I did not want to wait the additional year which passed from announcement to availability (at least here in the States).  In one year of use it has been bullet proof.  I have participated in Linn's beta software program and have updated the firmware dozens of times without any problem.  Others have not been so lucky with the NDX/NDS and have had to send the units back to the factory.

Perhaps my initial comment is now better understood.

Gregg

PS

As for performance, imho, my KDS is more enjoyable than my CD555 was.  As others have stated it provides an analogue sound - one which is more to my liking (especially considering my main source is vinyl).  There is no lack of PRAT running through a Naim pre/amp.

Finally, as a comment with regards to cd vs. streaming, in my opinion the true test of any piece of gear is how much use it gets.  My CD555 saw limited use while the LP12 played most of the time - I would say 90% vinyl 10% cd.  Now that I have the capability to stream the ratio is 50% vinyl 50% digital.  It is just so easy to have all those tracks in the palm of your hand.

A computer audio system ... Notably Apple feeding a high quality DAC just works and gives exceptional results ... DSD streams no problem, it just works ... It is this versatility that i find so attractive. At the moment it doesn't supplant the SQ of the NDS and that implies it does not match the KDS, but it is getting there and the ultimate is only a Naim Reference DAC away ... and for quantity rather than quality Apple Radio app is just around the corner ...

Yes, all these problems of setup because they went for a streaming solution.  A pity, so much aggro could have been saved had they implemented Asynchronous USB from the beginning.  But for some reason they followed the HDX (and Linn) with all the streaming devices.  Just look at the number of people with problems.   Still it seems Naim have seen the light.

Richard

Hi Richard

The problems I was referring to re Naim streamers have nothing to do with UPnP and streaming.  They are problems of another nature having to do with control software, system firmware, hardware design choices etc.

UPnP works fine.  I have followed Linn's DS series and Naim's streamers since their respective introductions to the market.  Both had problems in the beginning however today UPnP streaming is a mature system and it works.  I moved from a CD555 to a Klimax DS last January and setup took all of 5 minutes (I did it myself).  The network implementation I chose to use is unconventional and a bit "risky".  With that said things have worked perfectly from day one and I have never encountered any problems.  Any competent dealer or individual (such as myself) with a basic understanding of computers can get the system to work.  My DS has given me over a year of solid uninterrupted performance.  Firmware updates are automatic and have never failed once.

Asynchronous USB is not without its own problems.  One also remains tied to a computer and USB cable in the hifi (or living) room.

With that said I do have to admit that the new DAC-V1 and NAP100 are definitely nice looking 

Best

Gregg

UPNP limits you to Microsulk.  Many prefer the innate simplicity of a cross platform connection. Until the V1, Naim have resolutely stuck with a potentially flaky network solution.  It appears from posts such as yours, that Linn have been successful in implementing a network streaming solution.  Whereas Naim have had all sorts of problems, not the least of which an unnecessarily complicated system of implementing firmware/software updates. 

The big advantage of the Asynchronous USB solution is it is cross platform compliant and in rhe case of an MM, no drivers or bothersome software updates.  It is a true universal plug and play using Apple.  I agree not so good if you are using Windows.

i am pleased for you that you were able to install your DS so effortlessly.  But that is exactly what you cannot yet do with Naim If you have an Apple network.  I accept there are many who demand music throughout their house.  Good luck to them. I am both a traditionalist as I am only interested in music in one room.  After reading dozens and dozens of posts from Members with problems with both the software and the networking side of things, I doubt it is the long term replacement for the CD.  Well, not until they ensure it is compatible with all platforms. I say that, because the iPod generation demand reliable and most importantly a simple solution that just works.  As I have said, so far Naim have so far as I know, not offered an Apple network solution.  UPNP is a nightmare for Apple users, unless you use external software and have some geeky tendencies.  

Whatever replaces the CD, must be as easy to connect up and work straight out of the box.  

Sounds like a nightmare!  

No, Sir! It works with Linux, Mac, Windows. No Windows in the house and still happily streaming from a Synology NAS (Linux) to a Linn DS since 2010 without problems.

+1 - no Windoz in this house!

I run a Linn Klimax DS - UPnP in an ALL APPLE mac system.  It works perfectly - and my setup is rather unconventional.

I rip on my wireless MacBook Pro using DBPoweramp (via VMWare Fusion) however one could also use Mac native XLD for ripping.  I then wirelessly send the ripped files to an external hard drive which is connected to an iMac residing downstairs.  The iMac is connected to my house network via ethernet (although it could also connect wirelessly) and the Klimax is plugged into the same network.  The iMac runs MinimServer - a great UPnP native Mac program developed by a Linn DS user.

Everything works PERFECTLY - and remember I am running a mix of wireless and wired.  Stable as a rock.

Gregg

I have been streaming with Naim equipment for 2 years now, also stable as a rock.

Gerry

I still haven't been able to update my UQ so i wouldn't consider the NDS in its current form ... However, no such problems as I understand with Linn and no Windows embedded anywhere ... I have not taken the Linn option further though because I wait in expectation of the Naim Reference DAC ... fully confident that when fed from a Mac it'll just work (I wonder if Naim will consider enabling it to work with native DSD as well as PCM). I think Naim has enough streaming boxes for all those that want them and so it can now concentrate on making a great DAC 

Richard .. the current Naim DAC requires no form of UPnP to work splendidly. You just use a high quality optical cable like the Supernova 6 from your Mac. 

UPnP streaming works fine for me too in a Mac centric household.

Guy - updating's not so bad. Not as simple as the Linn, but pretty easy. With the latest firmware enabling playlist generation I'm now very happy with the Naim software.