Getting started with NAIM

Celt,

One question would be your budget, but that aside, the Uniti offers a bridge between old and new, still able to play CDs but extremely capable with streaming. It also takes up little space compared to separates and can be upgraded, I believe, by the addition of a power amp. Streaming to a Uniti is disarmingly simple. There are other new products available from Naim for computer audio and I would strongly recommend that you visit a Naim dealer who tend to be very helpful and well informed from my expereince.

I cannot comment on the other kit you mention but I would not think that Apple Express would offer you the sound quality. 

One thing that few people mention is that ripping CDs yourself takes a very long time and so it is worth getting it right first time through some thorought research but the threads here are full of good tips

It sounds like the start of an exciting journey

Bon voyage

Green Arch

+1

Ripping is your biggest investment. Get it right. 

Hi Celt,

you are on a very good track and have grasped the crux of high quality hifi. Your aproach to go for separates is quite valid. The key issue here is the amp section. It must suite your speakers. If you opt for 1000 £ or EUR speakers this issue is not really relevant, as you can easily change them if they don't fit to your current all-in-one solution. But if you have invested in really good speakers worth serveral thousands, the amp is of crucial importance. 

I take the approach of viewing speakers and amplifier as one unit and the sources as the add on. I also feel that the input side of things, i.e. streamers, will develop quite rapidly. It is therfore a wise move to keep this component separate from the 'basis', which is the afore mentioned speaker/amp combination.

In spite of my firm opinion expressed above it is hard give any specific advice on which components to purchase. I would always start on the speakers' end and consequently the amplifier to go along. As for streamers - phiuuuu .... The CA Magic 6 is certainly one way to start, why not!

Things to look out for with streamers are gapless playback with alll file formats, 192/24 capability, fastforward/backward within a running track, quality of the DAC section of course SQ.

As for a separate DAC I am convinced that this a very short term investment. During the past couple of years even the most basic devices have very decent DACs on board already. Just look at the Squeezebox Touch (wheep, no longer produced). I can very well live with the quality of my Touch. And if I did have a Naim DAC, I am sure it would be outperformed by a tiny inexpensive onboard chip built into the next streamer I buy in four or five years from now.

Thanks Guys,

All very good advice, and supports what I've been picking up on various threads. I'm not overly concerned about getting the very best streaming and DAC capability as I agree; I think they will be continously improved anyway. But yes, I should ensure I have the minimum streaming capabilities that you identify. Fortunately I have a NAIM and other Hi-Fi dealers nearby who appear clued-up.

The points about the Uniti2 and the value of a separate amp are both well taken. I guess I could later on enhance the Unit2 system performance by adding a NAIM power amp; and using the Uniti2 as a pre-amp (or is it the other way round? Sorry guys!).

Although the Uniti2 and the SuperUniti are functionaly speaking very similar (CDP and power rating excepted) I'm consistently advised that the S-Uniti sounds better. It seems to me that the Uniti2 offers a better overall deal  than the Super-Uniti (functionality/sound quality/price); so I guess I will need to hear them side by side to gauge whether or not the additional outlay for a Super Uniti is really worth it. In fact, I'll bring along my old CD player to hear how that (acting as a CD transport mechanism) will sound together with a) the Super-Uniti and b) a NAIM amp (eg  a NAIM 5i ?) ie. perform a 3 way test with the Uniti2 as the reference.

My speakers are also 20 year old; Tannoy 611s no less. No doubt they can be improved upon but my thinking is one step at a time. Once my system is run in, and after a year or so I'll look for additional improvements; first of which will be the speakers, and possibly the speaker-cable. Although I have good quality wire with Kimber 8TCs which I'm happy with; together with Chord jumpers.

After the above is sorted, my biggest concerns are:

1. How do I ensure I have my CDs ripped and tagged in the best possible way for sound quality and for easy (and future proof) archival and retrieval from whatever NAS I end up using? I'd like to download new albums in the future and have them archived in the same way as the my ripped CD collection. I've read countless threads on this subject and my conclusion is: it's an absolute minefield! . I'm not as computer-literate as I ought to be and I just don't have the time (or patience) to do searchs for Album covers. More likely, I'll screw up the meta-data process or not know how to get out of blind-alley that I'm bound to face at some point in ripping my CDs. That's why the UnitiServe or SSD version seemed appealing. But the downsides as I see it are:  the cost of something that I will hardly use once all CDs are ripped, the issue of WAV vs FLAC, and the archival compatibility / synchronisation for files I download later from other sources.  I have also considered that it's perhaps better go have my CD collection ripped for me professionally (FLAC) by a firm that specialises in this and who can store the files and Meta-data directly onto a NAS, using a sensible folder categorisation.

Any thoughts on the above ?

2. The second challenge I face, irrespective of which NAIM Uniti or NAIM amp I may end up choosing,   is how best to get access to Spotify resulting in as high a sound quality as possible given the lower resolution sizes of Spotify tracks? For example; an Airport EXpress or TV apple (if the amp has HDMI) with an IPAD as a control device. Or alternatively with something like the new Arcam AirDAC? But would that extra expense make any sense?  Most certainly I would not combine the CA DACMagic Streamer 6 with a Uniti product that has streaming capabilities already; but possibly if combined with a NAIM amp. (Then again, Í've also read horror stories about the DACMagic 6 too).

Lastly, any suggestions on NAIM amps?  And are amps with XLR connections really worth seeking out i.e. to future proof the amp?

Sorry Guys if I'm frying your brains on the subject but I'd certainly appreciate any additional advice / thoughts you may have on the points I raise.

Thanks.

Celt

Hi Celt,

lots of topics there you have put on the table. I would just like to give you some advice on the tagging issue.

The first and most important item to obseve is consistency without ANY exceptions.

And here is how I do it:

 Mandatory tags:

%artist%   This is the track artist. I recommend the follow the scheme of writing <last name, first name>. I actually write "Beatles, The". For classical music I put the composer here with only his last name.

%albumartist% this the artist und which you would sort the artist, if it was a vinyl. Same name convention as for the artist above. On 'normal' albums this is the same name as in %artist%. For compilations this is "Various Artists". For classical music I fill in the major performer such as "London Philharmonic Orchestra".

%title%  name of the track

%album% self-explaining. For classical music I fill in <composer (last name only) - album name>. This enables me search for composers within the album list. Most applications do not support the seach for composers, at least not in the standard configuration.

%composer% This only mandatory for classical music. Here I also fill in <last name, first name>.

%track% Relative no. of the track within the album. This is mandatory for all commerially sold albums, if you want to maintain the order of the tracks. Only on self-compiled albums such as a collection of individual tracks of a decade of which you do not have the album the track no. can be ommitted.

Optional tags:

whatever you like. I sometimes fill in the publisher and/or a comment.

I have also defined a custom tag called %source%. This is actually a mandatory tag for me. Here I specify things like if it was a CD or a vinyl rip or maybe a download and the source of the download. I also note the bitrate (for lossy formats) or the frequency and width (for lossless formats). some examples: CD rip - Lossless 44.1/16, DL Amazon - MP3 320/16 (DL stands for download), DL HDTracks - Lossless 192/24. I sometimes work with lower quality copies, especially if we're talking about highres stuff, because I can only stream 48/24 via wifi and I want to know whatvthe original is, which resides in another library.

My folder and file naming convention is coherent with the tags and sorted in three levels. The highest level is the album artist. Therin come the albums an therin the single titles. The titles are named "artist - title". 

Album art can be very easily retrieved from the internet. Just google for the albumartist and album name. Then click on "pictures" or "images" in the top menue of the web page. If availabel choose an image between 1500x1500 and 500x500 pixels. And make sure the are .jpg files. Those are recognized by all servers. Store the image in the album folder and name it "Cover - <albumartist> - <album>". "Cover" makes sure that the server will recognize the file as the relevant album art.

Online data bases, and this applies also the one that Naim uses, can only fullfil a support function in the tagging process. They are 99% faulty at some point and will never match your tagging convention completely. So you will ALWAYS have to check the data coming in from such services and manually correct them.

Lastly I delete all tags which I do not use but come with the online meta data.

I recommend MP3Tag for tagging.

Have fun! :-)

I would disagree with some of Pink Hamsters suggestions.

For the Artist tag, using "The Beatles" as an example, leave the Artist as "The Beatles", for that is who the Artist is. Use the ArtistSort tag and make it "Beatles, The" or however you would like Artists to sort. Rippers like dBpoweramp will do this if you wish. And/or use a server that can ignore words like "The". Servers like Asset UPnP will do this if you wish. Use a UPnP server and control point that will show albums by ArtistSort for that is what that tag was designed to be used for.

Similarly, the Composer tag for Mozart is best left as "Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart", for that is his name. The ComposerSort tag, which dBpoweramp and other rippers will set for you, is the correct tag to use to get Composers in alphabetical order of surname, eg "Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus". Use a UPnP server/control point that will sort by ComposerSort, for that is what the tag was designed to be used for.

Never make the Artist the Composer. This is simply not true!! People do it to work round inadequacies in some UPnP servers/control points. Use a UPnP server and control point that aren't inadequate. 

Depending on your preferred o/s, checkout rippers/taggers like dBpoweramp and XLD, and pay for them, for in the scheme of things they cost buttons. These will retrieve artwork for you automatically, and set all the tags that are available from various online databases.

Indeed, the SortArtistis, SortComposer tags are a viable option. But they suffer some severe disadvantages.

Sometimes one simply cannot remember the first name of an artist or composer. This complicates the search if you use the SortX tags. Also it is not quite right to say "this is his/her name". If you register with an authority, an online store or any fitness club, they will register you as "Johnson, Goerge" or at best as "Johnson" as last name and additionally "George" as first name. 

I simply feel that last name, first name is the most robust method. But everyone to his own. I am only expressing my opinion and experiences.

And yes, the composer in the artist tag is sort of a work around. But please note that I am not omitting the composer in its designated tag. My way of doing it is a tribute to my file naming convention (artist - title). What good is a file to me which is named "Anne Sophie Mutter - Op. 66, I. Adagio"? I prefer to have "Mozart  - Op. 66, I. Adagio". Nothing is perfect .... But again, everyone to his own.

Another thing I forgot to mention is, that the use of the SortX tags requires you to populate and maintain additional tags. Quite obvious of course. And I do not feel this to be desirable. 

Surely if you can't remember the first name of an artist or a composer, but you can remember the last name, then the ComposerSort tag is exactly what you want to view by, because it will be in order of the last name - the bit you remember. 

Just because your filenaming convention isn't very good isn't a very good reason to make your Artist tag naming convention not very good either. Why not use a good filenaming convention? Why not use a different filenaming convention for classical and non-classical?  - Composer/Album for classical, Artist/Album for non-classical for example. dBpoweramp can be set up to to this automatically.

No-one has every been called "Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus" and he has never, ever, made a cd! More's the pity.

Likesmusic,

when have you last been to a CD shop? There you will most probably find a plastic board tab labled Mozart, W.A. or the like.

My first and primary statement regarding tagging above was that consistency is the essence of it. Therefor I catagorically refuse deviating tagging and/or file naming structures.

This is what works for me. And hey, I am sure that neither of us would get lost the other's library. We are arguing about cosmetics here.

Hamster, Pink, I agree. Inconsistency and deviancy is deplorable!

Calling Mozart an AlbumArtist is inconsistent with the truth!! Calling Mozart an AlbumArtist most certainly deviates from the truth!! Saying a Hard Days Night is by "Beatles, The" is inconsistent with the truth too! What's next? "Stones, Rolling, The"? 

It is perfectly possible to have consistent, non-deviant file-naming and tagging structures without doing such things. You can consistently use the composer to name files for classical albums, and consistently use the artist to name files for non-classical albums. dBpoweramp will not deviate from that rule, if you want it to.

I would get completely lost in your library because I could not accept and would not expect Mozart to be an artist. Though if you have any cds on which he played or conducted I would change my attitude!

music, likes.

I am not calling Mozart the Albumartist. This is the orchestra or major artist in my tagging.

And again, consistency is not a matter of the software employed, but of absolute character. The scheme needs to work on all software. Also on a USB flash drive in the car.

And where is the boundary between classical and contemporary?

Sorry I got confused! No wonder! You call the Artist "Mozart" (though he isn't), but you don't call the AlbumArtist "Mozart" even though you've made him the artist for every track on the album (which he can't be). No wonder I was confused. Mozart isn't an artist. Just can't be. He died long before they started making cds. The Beatles are "The Beatles". There's no need to mess up your tags to get Mozart or the Beatles to play in the car from a USB stick. 

Celt,

.....now do you see what you've started!   ......I am not as advanced at the other users in the string, I simply use the tagging that comes with my ripping software (XLD on a mac) at its just fine. I am sure that there is some functionality missing but I think you can always catch up later by using one of the tagging programmes. Please don't the complexities of what can-if-you-can-be-bothered be achieved put you off. An ipod touch is to be recommended or an ipad if you have the money as it makes navigation of the stored files much easier.

Another thing that I have come to realise is that I am increasingly buying music in digital format from one of the online shops, so even if you do not rip much you will probably find the ability to play digital files very useful in future - I'll leave it to others to talk about any death of CDs!

You asked about a uniti serve and I would love to have the money for one of these, but don't forget that if you do buy one to rip all your lovely CDs, it is likely to command an excellent second hand price should you then wish to part with it!

Green Arch

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the tips on tagging. I hadn't realised I was opening up such a can of worms! But it does confirm what I expressed earlier: there's obviously no one way or right way of going about the process.

Any thoughts about my comments on the options for streaming and optimising Spotify?

Celt.

Hi Celt,

I like XLD too - I just use the normal settings as far as the tagging is concerned and I seem to be able to find everything. Try it (it's free) and see what you think - you don't have to rip everything at once.

I think that the Naim interface and search options are a bit clunky at the moment (but getting better), especially compared to the Sonos interface.

I'd be interested to hear anything about Spotify too as I'm not sure it's available from Naim.

Good luck - and have fun experimenting..

Matthew

Celt,

Re. Spotify through Uniti, I do it through my Sonos.

Zone Player wired into my 'digital in' on the Uniti.

Its a cheap-ish option to get Spotify or Napster through the Uniti, and the quality

Is pretty good.

I do subscribe to the Spotify Premium though for access through iPad, and also for the higher quality streams.

Hi Celt,

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain it so well.

The iPad I just use as the controller / remote.

You can get 320kbps streams from Spotify Premium, which I then get

Into my Uniti via the Sonos.

So the stream quality is pretty good.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Chris