I want to go "CD-less" but I'm a baffled

Yes, that's what we do. Control is though the inbuilt OS screen-sharing from a MBP laptop, or via the excellent and free "Remote" app on an iPad or iPhone (it you use iTunes). It works very well.

If you like Mac, don't want streaming and are comfortable with how you would rip discs with it then you might be better staying with that route. If you're not streaming, then you don't need a streamer of course  so you could use what you would have spent on that to upgrade your Naim kit.

You're likely to get the same variation of opinions on here as on Pinkfishmedia (except the anti-Naim ones), though they may be expressed in a more civil manner

Thanks chaps. I will need to evaluate how the sound changes with each option but I initially wanted to find out how technically feasible my ideas were. After my post elsewhere I was browsing here and I saw some posts by Guido Fawkes and wanted to clarify I had understood his opinions.

Civility is always a good thing

Most sensible route would seem to simply stick the Mac I already have into the S/n. Do I need anything else to get a reasonable sound from this set up? Someone told me I'd need another DAC because computers automatically downgrade sound output to a lower resolution. Is this right?

Another DAC won't help if the input source (ie the computer) is bad to start with. I'm not a Mac user (beyond iPad / iPhone) but I certainly see plenty of people saying that the Mac Mini has an excellent digital output which would go straight into the SN. I don't know about other Mac models. The other method people use is USB into a good USB DAC. The new Naim DAC-V1 and NAP100 are purpose-built for that of course. I'm sure others who listen this way will soon be along to comment.

The dealer I talked to mentioned one DAC to regulate the output from the computer and another as well. I can't recall why but he was pretty sure it would help.

If I don't need either and the mac mini will work, I imagine my MBP will do the job just as well if I stick an external HDD on it.

Hi,

I'm using a 2012 Mac Mini as a music server 16GB 256SSD/500GBHD Model. I bought it for this purpose and set it up for just music. Its silent and sits on the rack.

itunes 11 and Audirvana in direct mode. Toslink into a NDAC/555PS. Controlled from an iPad using iTunes Remote.

All I can say is it beats my CDX2/XPS2 hands down for clarity, pace and separation. Wonderful.

I'm supposed to be trying an NDX this weekend but after 2 hours of fiddling and moving stuff about I still cant get either an analogue or digital output from it, and since the dealer omitted the remote I can't check the setup. Also nStream wont recognise it.... So I think I'll just take it back and stick with the Mini...

I thought I'd try my MBP in my S/n again to check what it sounded like ( I had tried before but couldn't get any sound ) Unfortunately, I couldn't get any sound again so I'm a bit stuck at the minute. Will give my dealer a call for help tomorrow.

Done a bit of research and I believe my dealer was guiding me towards the MF V-Link192 ( to cut down on jitter or something?)

Anyway,  I'm leaning towards starting with the MBP and S/n dac to start me off and maybe add a Naim DAC later.

I have two other questions though:

1. If I used my 2011 MBP with the MF V-Link 192 would the mac be able to play hi-resolution studio masters?

2. If so, would I notice the quality of these using this gear and the S/nait DAC or not?

Phew! I'm so ignorant

Thanks

Connect MBP to SN using a digital optical cable such as Supernova 6. Open Audio Midi app on Mac and set the output to digital out ... Select correct input on SN and it should play. 

The bit about two DACs makes no sense to me. An app like Bit Perfect or Audrivana will be a much better option. Perhaps  your dealer meant a USB to SPDiF convertor like the excellent April Music Stello U3, However, for now set Audio Midi as in this picture CLICK and then dance to the music.

Use a decent cable  ... The Supernova 6 is very much better than the Chord. 

Macs make great transports ... The mini is the best though not tried new MBP. Old MBP not so good, but the Stello U3 or less expensive hiFace would remedy that. 

You don't need a UPnP streamer .... So no Vortexbox required. 

Hi Guy and thanks for your reply. My edit crossed your post I'm afraid.

As I say in the edit, I believe my dealer was indeed suggesting the MF equivalent of what you said.

I have my mac set up as you suggest but still no joy. I wonder if the cable is dud? I haven't used it before so its possible I suppose. The only other alternative is a fault with the S/n ( or operator error of course ) I 've read the manual though and re-set it and fiddled with every button on the front, trying all options to no avail. Ah well, a trip to the dealer is in order

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

All righty, my sound is now working. I suspect that I might not have had the thing pushed in far enough. How embarrassing Anyway, onward and upward !

Is it the case that I wouldn't need to bother with the Stello U3 or equivalent if I was using a new mac mini and that I could just plug the mini straight into the S/n without penalty in a way I could not do with the older MBP? OR would the stello still improve the new mini? Can you please explain why that is? Sorry but I'm really quite unclear what the difference between the two is.

If the new mini without the Stello was as good as an older MBP with it, then I'd probably just go for one because it wouldn't cost much more for the basic mini. ( although if the stello would improve the new mini too, I'd just have to save a bit longer.

One last question please. Is there a particular spec of mini I should look for or is the very basic £499 one enough for my needs? Thanks

One other last question ( sorry ) should I store my music on the internal drive of the mini and use an eternal HDD as back-up or should I use two external HDD -  a main and a back up? Thanks

Thanks again

The only thing I will say is that I applaud your idea to use a HDD backup.  While it may seem common sense to most, the guy at Vortexbox told me he gets calls now and again from people who have a problem and didn't make external backup.  Usually from people who thought that a RAID configuration would be a substitute or suffice for a backup.

When I bought my 2 GB VB, I just factored in as part of the cost to go streaming the purchase of a 2 GB external HDD.  (Which with VB you can only use your backup for VB even if there is plenty of room left.)  Got it on sale at Costco for $129.

Im running a 2007 Mac Mini into an Ndac via HiFace2 and Mark grant BNC-BNC.

It is most certainly as good as my CDX2/XPS2 i had a few years ago.

I also have a time capsule/router which takes care of back ups so need need for separate HDD.

Win Win!!

Yes the hiFace works too ... 

The older Macs did not have as good an optical out as the newer ones so a good quality USB to S/PDIF really improves things. This is because of jitter. 

With a newer Mac playing back CD rips it is hard to tell between the optical and a USB to S/PDIF convertor ... A top class one like the Stello U3 can show its worth with high resolution such as.a SACD rip played through Audrivana. 

The hiFace, Halide Bridge and even the humble MF V-Link 1 are good products and work very well making even a quite aged Mac a very useful transport for a Naim digital system. 

[PS the only way I've found to rip SACDs to DSD is using a Sony Playstation ... Fortunately a younger relative has an old one and seldom uses it since he got one of those XBox things] 

[PPS if connecting directly using optical then Supernova 6 is a superb connector, if you are using USB to S/PDIF then the low cost, high quality Mark Grant cables are great. The Wireworld UV USB cable is another recommendation if you need a USB cable]

Thanks very much for your help. I've been and bought a mac mini today and I'm busy ripping CDs using XLD. I haven't got a CD drive on the mini so have been ripping them on my MBP. I wonder if quality would suffer if I bought a superdrive to attach to the mini?

Also do you know if I can make use of very hi-def files such as studio masters at 24/192 by simply using the optical out on the mini or would I need to invest in one of the USB to SPDIF things?

Thanks again

It matters not which drive you use for ripping. Use the setup that is convenient for you.

The mini's optical out will do up to 96kHz at 24 bit integer or 32 bit floating. I would think that the difference between 96kHz and 192kHz is slight.

I was just a bit worried in case the fact that it had to be connected via cable to the computer might have an effect but I suppose there's no real reason why it should.

Thanks for the info re bitrates. I'm hoping to try some hi-res downloads tomorrow. Don't know if I will notice much difference with my fairly basic set up but I will find out

Hmm. Seems it wasn't my plugging the toslink in that was at fault. There is a bit of a reliability issue with the S/nait digital input or something. When I connect it, it doesn't always work. Also, the amp sometimes freezes and I need to turn it on and off again. I had a look on here and it appaears there might be some reaction to TV or other electrical signals. I've taken off the Sky+ wireless dongle thing and so far it hasn't repeated. I don't know if I've solved it or not. Time will tell.

Anyway, I've been ripping a few CDs with XLD and using iTunes. The biggest challenge ( apart from the above issue) is organising the files. I've had XLD rips ending up in a parent folder then the album folder inside that and the tracks inside that. I've been deleting the parent folder because that seemed to make sense but I'm only 24 hours a ripper, and time will tell. The only other pain is the album art which seems to work on some albums but not others; particularity annoying is when it appears only on 1 disc of a 4 - disc set.

If I could have some advice on the following I'd be grateful:

1. Would you say Audirvana is a worthwhile item? I seem to recall reading it would be best used in Direct Mode but that some DACs didn't allow this. I'm looking at the Naim DAC sometime so would it be all right with that?

2. Should I look to get something like the Stello U3 or stick with Optical for the best SQ? I will invest in some of the cables once I've decided

3. Overall while this seems a sensible way to start. However, I notice most people who use NDACs on here seem to use pretty expensive PS too. Does this suggest the DAC on it's own not a great sound cf NDX? In other words if I'm not going to go with a beefy PS would I be best looking to the NDX? I will audition in due course but I'm wondering for the moment.

Thanks again for all your help

Sound Quality is subjective, but FWIW I think the bare DAC sounds much better than the NDX and with a a PSU it just gets better. 

I set XLD to rip to iTunes ... That way it neatly organises everything in the iTunes library ... I edit the metadata if i don't agree with it so all my early Alice Cooper albums are under The Alice Cooper Group and later ones when Vince went solo are under Alice Cooper

Audrivana is very good in my opinion, but it is icing on the cake. ITunes with Bit Perfect sounds great too. I'm confused why a DAC would not support Direct Mode, but Audrivana uses the Isotope engine rather than Apple Core Audio. This enables it to use integer arithmetic even though Apple stopped supporting integer mode in Lion. Audrivana also optimises the Mac and it'll play things that iTunes alone cannot such as DSD streams. It works well with the Naim DAC and will convert DSD to PCM for  Naim friendly output. If you had a Chord DAC it would stream DSD over USB, but Naim does not support this yet. Still as nearly all music is PCM then this s not an issue. 

Again the Stello U3 is icing on the cake ... the optical out with a new Mac Mini is great as longs as you use a good optical cable such as the Supernova 6. I didn't like the Chord OptiChord at all ... The TCI cable used to be great called the Kuiri, but is no longer made.  The U3 is not cheap, but it is very very good and enables you to play 24/192 files ... not the most important feature though. 

All the best, Guy

Hi Guy. I am grateful for your reply.

As you say SQ is subjective and I will audition both options in due course. I'm hoping I like the DAC, though, because it would get me out of the UpNP thing which I'm happy to avoid. Also it allows me to let the system grow in a way I can understand and learn gradually while at the same time spread my expenditure a little.

I will download a trial of Audirvana. I'm not sure where I heard about the DAC thing and Direct Mode ( probably imagined it ) and I will replace my £20 Apple store optical cable with the Supernova 6.

I will need to check XLD about saving my files to iTunes. I only used it for the first time yesterday so still a novice.

Anyway, thanks again for all your advice on this, it really has been extremely helpful

Willie