Naim Exodus? What's going on?

Dear Tony,

Naim is an ever evolving company. Its range now has a much broader appeal than say ten years ago.

If Naim were only producing what they did ten years ago, they would be gone or in serious trouble. For the traditionalists it is great that Naim continues to succeed in difficult times. For the new comers, it is grand that they have been given the chance to engage in a special style of musical replay.

But ... This does create a situation where some are less than happy to witness the changes in direction that are necessary for survival.

More than worrying about who leaves or joins the Forum, perhaps it is an idea to take the pragmatic view that Naim makes some great kit, and just enjoy it for what it does.

I have noticed only gains in quality of replay over time, even if I cannot see myself adopting Naim solutions to digital hard drive source components. 

In treading new paths Naim have shown that process is not painless, but no changes ever are ...

ATB from George

I think it's an inevitable process ('veterans' moving to 'elder" as in image below), but one that the change to Hoopla has substantially accelerated. Perhaps that was the purpose of the move to the new format, i.e., bring in more peripheral visitors.

Dear, George.

I'm sure quite a few members are happy to "follow the leader" and wait for the next move without questioning their positioning. It is up to them!

Questioning sometimes result in "discipline" for the whole not the few!

Thanks for being around.

KR

Tony

Jan,

So, Naim are trying to target a new audience  and it's working. The forum should reflect this but it's not IMHO.

KR

Tony

Dear Tony,

As you know, I am not a born follower, and some people find my views somewhat different to their own. I prefer an exchange with another who has strong and different views to my own. So long as it stays civil and avoids sarcasm!

If I need agreement, then I talk to myself, though tend not to admit it all that often!

I remember once a work colleague said to me that I must be really quiet at home to which I replied that I hardly ever talk to myself. In those days I had a lovely black,  tan and white Welsh Collie dog, but we never actually vocalised to each other inside the house!

Anyway, I have just taken my beautifully worn-in Brooks B17 off my Carlton and put it on the Ambrosio  Eureka! I think that though it is a dark tan saddle it looks very fine on a cycle that is basically blue with black parts and aluminium wheels and brake calipers. I did not expect a bit of dark tan leather to fit in on a modern looking cycle, but it looks times, and rides so well. so I'll get a light tan one for the Carlton! That would look nice!

I may be an old hand on the Forum, but I would be horrified to think anyone agreed with me without doing the audition for themselves!

ATB from George

Could you rephrase or expand, Tony, I'm not following you,

Jan

(slightly sleep deprived)

Jan,

I think a lot of people  keep away from the forum due to a few hard core members who will not accept that changes are innevitable( eg: Streaming). Everytime someone mention anything but analogue platforms around here, there's an army of soldiers ready to shoot them down. How welcoming!

Quite late now and sorry if I cannot be more succint a the present time.

Nighty night...

KR

Tony

It's a common human trait to feel comfortable with stability. Innovation and rapidly evolving digital technology can be somewhat at odds with that.

It takes a fairly substantial financial commitment to buy a Naim-based system and possibly go on to climb the upgrade ladder too. New models appear a lot more quickly than they used to, so there can be a negative impact on product purchase confidence - albeit used Naim equipment generally retains its value better than most.

Naim must of course embrace and evolve new technology or die. I might not want to run with the frisky young pack, but this relatively mature audiophile thinks that spectating from the sidelines is still fun.

John.

Speaking purely for myself, I think the tone of the forum has changed and that this, at least partly, reflects wider changes in home audio. A few decades ago hi-fi was much more of a 'specialist' interest than it is now. With the digital revolution, iPods, computer based solutions etc., I think a much wider range of people have become interested in getting quality replay at home. This in turn I think is also partly due to the fact that a high quality computer type source can now be had for very little money compared to the earlier days of very expensive turntables or even CD players.  

Naim, like every other company, must move with the times if they are to survive. I am a long-standing customer, originally a 'flat-earther', but if Naim now adopted the same strategy as they did in those earlier days they would simply go out of business. It is interesting to compare the history of Naim with that of Linn Products. As most will know, the two companies were once closely allied, but then Linn struck off in a different direction, seemingly with the intent of targeting a wider customer base beyond the 'audiophile' community. A shrewd business move perhaps. Naim have I think been more reserved, but it is clear that they are now essentially following where Linn Products have trod before.

Peter

agree      . linn I guess never really sold a lot of amplifiers,  lp12 too expensive.  .from dealers it appears that their streamers sell well and linn back it up with the best download music in the uk..

my guess is the naim cdp will disappear soon,

Jan-Erik,

Interesting Life Cycle which I can relate to.

I can plot myself on it and can see my inevitable departure point. But the departure point I don’t think will be related to Naim (Focal) product strategy and business plan but more to the nature, tone and quality of the Forum itself.

I suspect I am a Veteran - not sure I would call myself  a "Leader" although I haved triggered some healthy debates.

Richard

I thought the 'Naim Exodus' was going to be some sort of giant speaker for reggae purposes...

Re leaving the forum - I think it's partly the Hoopla thing. 

The forum structure stinks  - to much appearance and not enough info per square unit of screen space.

I think it's like any club, you get tired of hearing certain voices with their endless hobby horses and ask yourself, 'what am I still doing here when this used to be so much fun?'

This doesn't diminish my love of my Naim hi-fi though.

Chris

Since the very first Naim forum we have over the years had some very prolific contributors, there just comes a time to move on maybe, simple

Seems to me all the posts have it collectively nailed  ............

Jan-Erik & his nice life cycle diagram accurately sums up the age progression thru the process,  in short it indicates we all grow out of or become bored of being active on forums.  I agree the point that Hopeless has accelerated the process.   Some seem to be hyper-active for a time & they disappear,  others seem to get some pleasure out of controversy, others for music, others for technical info, others disappear & pop up again from time to time,  others just plod on for years.   But whatever, we spend time on the stages of the life cycle circuit, the only variable is the time to complete that process.

Peter has summed up the fact that Naim is no longer a specialist product, all the consumer electronics makes are streaming & it is questionable if the price of Naim streamers is what is required to get the best out of that medium.  The SQ difference between the high end & lower end if nowhere near what it was & price differences do not reflect that. 

The product range may be more extensive,  but once understood its relative simple & the product line is not as technically complex as it was when we had numerous phono stage options, cartridge loading, tripac amps etc.,  & dare I say less simple than today’s UPnP & somewhat less reliable. 

The other problem is there are only so many things to ask & talk about on a forum, how to wire a Flatcap has a certain limited life span.  But newbies will always come along & ask the same questions & not go searching or looking at FAQ,   (a very normal thing to do)  Then the older members get bored & frustrated when the same ol' same ol' stuff gets repeated & they lose interest.

Then you get the hostile (dare I hint at trolls) with the I'm right you just so wrong exchanges - then we all get bored, except the combatants.

My old Zulu saying maybe the way it is - 

It is the way of things that the old dogs seek the shade of the fever trees and the young dogs step up and show the pups the new way of things.

As well as I can remember pre hoopless there was no "avatar" so those of us who choose not show themselves now are just keeping up tradition.

Indeed the use of avatars is just one of the bad things about this new format, as Derek said too much space not enough useful info. It has fallen on deaf ears, there was much debate when it was implemented, a lot left, there has been a gradual exit of members ever since.

Some have stated that a seemingly heavier hand on the moderation handle is another reason for the increase in escapees.

Personally I think that with streaming there has ben a rejuvenation in posting, but I suspect that is due to it being such a ridiculously complicated thing to implement. Oh for the complication of putting a CD/LP in/on the CDP/TT, and especially with vinyl sitting back and reading all about the album. 

No need for fancy theories where some of us are concerned: in my case a ridiculous workload, though I suppose it hasn't prevented me from posting this....

I think there are maybe more 'lurkers' these days. Looking at the stats. right now there are 95 members signed in but 286 guests...

People have always come and gone on the forum. Some of the most prolific posters of the late 1990s and early 2000s went on their way (or were booted) and were replaced by new blood. More turn over now? Hard to say. Jan-Erik's cycle perhaps?

My only minor gripe with members is why can't you use your real faces? It would be so much more personal and potentially friendly......hmmmmmm? Is it just a matter of "why should I" or a genuine fear of identity theft, which would be a little paranoid IMO. Or maybe you are just shy

That is my real face.  Most of the time.  G

I used to be one of those lurkers when I couldn't afford Naim kit. It was like in "Wayne's World" looking at the guitar saying, "One day you'll be mine..."

I have now been a member since 2003. Sometimes I get bored or very busy and stay away for a while but I never announce it because I don't think I need to. It was a bit of a shock when I came back and found that a whole bunch of people had disappeared and the look and feel of the forum itself had changed.

And I like GreameH's face.

Originally Posted by Jasonf:

My only minor gripe with members is why can't you use your real faces? It would be so much more personal and potentially friendly......hmmmmmm? Is it just a matter of "why should I" or a genuine fear of identity theft, which would be a little paranoid IMO. Or maybe you are just shy

That is my real face.  Most of the time.  G

Aghast or in constant disbelief?

Jason 

The heyday of the forum as far as I was concerned was the period that the 500 series came into being. A lot of good reviews and comments which I am sure helped to sell a lot of kit. After the completion of the 500 series I drifted away from the forum.