WAV Naim and AIFF

Willie, why don't you rip one CD to WAV and AIFF, add ALAC as well, just for good measure, play them all and see what you hear. That's all that counts, no need to worry about what everyone else thinks or hears.

Good luck

tp

I agree with tp.

I think most of us without a Uniti Serve or HDX have chosen to go with AIFF, ALAC, or FLAC, because WAV has tagging issues.  Naim's ripping solution neutralizes the WAV tagging problems with a custom database, which is excellent, as long as you stay in the Naim Server system.  PC users can use the Asset app to transcode to WAV during playback from the other formats, if you think you need WAV, but want to rip to one of the other formats for meta-data benefits.  

I use a Mac Mini and started with ALAC, but have moved to AIFF because I thought it sounded slightly better in my system.  If I ever find an easy real-time transcoder for Mac, I may give it a try.  All of the lossless formats sound very good.

Good luck,

Nick

Hi NIck

WAV doesn't have any tagging issues. It is some software programs that have issues with tagged WAV.

And if one is using Asset than there is no issue at all because Asset is one of the programs that handles tagged WAV just fine.

-

aleg

Agree that there is no issue at all with tagging WAV files and to my ears I decided that they were slightly preferable to any other format. But, as stated above that means nothing at all to your good self. Why not do as suggested and rip to a couple of formats and decide if you prefer one over the other or maybe can’t hear any difference. As long as you rip to a lossless format you can convert at any time should you ever wish to.

One thing I can suggest if you are looking for a versatile program to handle your music is you look at J. River Media Centre 18. This is in the process of being ported to OSX, 1^st beta released 1 week and already on the 3^rd build, will not be fully completed for several months probably but is already very useable. If you don’t like the idea of using a product in beta then perhaps look at it in a couple of month’s time – the guys of there work pretty darn quick.

Peter

Thanks chaps. Good advice to compare and I will do that this weekend.

The slight problem is that I'm ripping as I build my system so although AIFF might sound as good/better/worse on my current set up, I was wondering if I changed things later - eg went down the Naim streaming route or made some other change -  if it would be easy to transfer to WAV later if need be.

Willie

Hi, Aleg,

I accept your correction.  My limited experience involved using iTunes and Logitech Media Server sharing a library, ripped with XLD.  IIRC, my results with WAV, especially with artwork, were uneven.  But, that was some time ago; I probably gave up too soon.  

I admit this combination is not perfect, even with AIFF and ALAC; manual tagging is sometimes still required.  I like having a fall-back streaming system for when one or the other goes down, which is too often the case.

Nick

There are many programs that convert your whole library from one format to another at the click of a mouse - DBPoweramp being one but I'm sure there's a Mac option (XLD?). If there's not, make friends with someone with a real computer

As you have ripped in a lossless format you will be fine.

I use .wav files with JRiver v18 and it does a very good job with tags - though I don't have many classical albums, they do seem to be catered for. Nstream works well enough with JRiver, though not perfectly.  Be aware that Naim devices pull songs and playlists from your server, which means that JRemote (which is excellent as control software) is not compatible with Naim streamers such as the NDX.

I originally ripped a whole load of CDs to my MacBook Pro and played them in to my nDac via an optical lead. They were ripped via iTunes and all seemed perfect. However, when I got the NDX I decided to move the .wav files to my main PC and was going to stream them from there. That turned out to be a nightmare, with iTunes losing most of the rips, let alone the metadata. For that reason, I would suggest using something like dbpoweramp to rip your music in to a 'proper file system' in wav or FLAC. Once that is done you can see all your files from any software you choose to use.

Myself, I rip all discs 3 times as I buy them. dBpoweramp to .wav, iTunes for my portable devices and uncompressed in to my Macbook / itunes to play on holiday or through headphones. Will soon get a headphones DAC amp (Meridian?) for the headphones.

Regards

Huw

Other, more competent, people may have better experiences!

Simply - no it makes no difference as WAF and AIFF are both uncompressed formats and the computer is doing the conversion of files into an audio data stream carried by the Toslink cable to the DAC. The quality of the DAC in reclocking the stream and avoiding jitter are the key thing, not the source file format.... 

I use a 2012 mac mini with the Naim DAC/555PS and I'm very happy with it fronting a 252/SC/300/s400 system. Didnt like the NDX, too laid back compared to the DAC and my CDX2.

Willie, AIF and WAV are very similar file formats. Main difference is the sample encoding values are reversed between the two, but the PCM sample values are identical.

In machines that decode files and convert into another format such as SPDIF or I2S such as NDX and NDS internally, there is a little machine code software routine that repeatedly reads these values and converts them.. These machine code cycles by their nature produce little ripples at very high frequency on the grounding and powerlines. Therefore if the code changes because the file format is different, the characterstic of the induced ripples will be slightly different. They are usually carefully decoupled or 'filtered' but that doesn't mean eliminate. This pulses can modulate clocks and analogue circuits. Now a design will aim to ensure this is within tolerances or within the noise floor.

However this still could be perceived by a listener if the rest of the audio chain is sufficiently revealing and they are sensitised to the audio differences.

And that's what is all about I believe.

But these days with upnp servers and the like it's trivial to transcode to a file format you prefer the sonic signature of with your Naim. If all the files sound the same to you then you need do nothing.

Eitherway you are not limited to format you happen to have all your CDs ripped to.

I hope that makes some sense.

Simon

Wav tags can  not accept unicode characters. So they cant display info in every language. That is an issue for many people.

Thank you all very much for your help. I am feeling a bit happier now TBH the ripping hasn't been a party so far and I'm only on the "F"s. The metadata for classical stuff is a pain and I wouldn't want to do it all again  so good to know I don't have to and can transfer later if need be.

Thanks again

Willie

You rip everything three times? You must have too much time on your hands in addition to not having  grasped the essence of lossless rips and how iTunes works.

Rip to any lossless format. Preferably flac or alac as they have the best tag support. Aleg will object and say that wav also supports tags perfectly. Yes and no. The tags are ID3 tags as in MP3 files. I don't particularly like them. But anyway ...

From your lossless rips you can transcode to any other format, lossy or lossless, without loosing your tags. No need to do an extra rip for that.

If you want to use ripsnin iTunes, which were not made by Itunes, you need to import thm into the iTunes library of course. But this is no secret sience. You have obviously become a victim of the iVirus. Don't rely on apple online metadata, but put the metadata into your files in a proper fashion and they will be available in any software, including shxx iTunes.

You missed AIFF. 

Again, yes and no. aiff is perfectly ok, but not every software supports tags in aiff. If your software does, then yes, of course.

But it seems to be better sonically than ALAC or FLAC to these ears, and suits iTunes just so ...

Do you have to be an arse PinkHamster? I'm sure if you work on it you can find a civil way to deal with people. You might try spending some of the time you save on ripping CDs taking some lessons in diplomacy. Don't assume you know how other people interact with their systems and that your way is best - I have transcoded from FLAC in the past and actually find my way less hassle.

It actually takes very little of my time to rip 3 times, as I'm usually reading the news or doing exercise on my indoor bike and clicking the mouse a couple of times does not challenge me too much. I also get what I want from doing it this way, instead of having to mess around with conversions - which actually take a lot longer to do than press my mouse 3 times to say yes, please rip.

Apart from iTunes being unwilling to play easily with other software and being useless at re-importing it's own rips and downloads (especially audiobooks) the rest is generally straightforward.

Regardless of wether I am an arse or not, you are obviously the one who is unwilling accept good advice; even if you do not want to take the advice for yourself then at least do not discredit it by telling things that are untrue.

I am by no means a fan of iTunes but it is very well capable of importing and handling files from any accessible location and of any origin as long as it is in a compatible file format.

So please stop telling nonsense just because YOU don't know any better.

Pinkhamster - I think the point is less about the advice you are giving and more about the manner in which you choose to deliver your words of wisdom.

Other than politicians - I can't think of anyone who can claim to know everything and maintain a straight face. 

just a thought

Tog

PinkHampster, I'm happy to take good advice.  As it happens your advice does not actually suit my needs and may not suit other peoples needs either.  Don't assume you know everything.

I have not actually told anyone to do anything or use any method to rip. I have just outlined what I do and my experience and the software I use. People can take my comments along with others and make up their own mind.

I am not the first and will not be the last to think that iTunes has issues playing nicely with other software. For instance, on my Win 7 PC it is the software that crashes most frequently. With the latest version of iTunes audiobooks jumped chapters once installed on a player (since the very latest fix it seems to be working). 

Tog sums it up. It's not what you say it's how you say it, in an adult world.  I may or may not have as great an understanding of everything as you do but I get along in my own way.

Try being an adult and being civil and I will take you seriously, otherwise I will just ignore you, like the many other people on the Internet who would not dare to be so rude in a face to face conversation.

I guess this is more a software issue than being an issue of the wav format. Any other experiences? It is important for many of us for sure, therefore any further comments would be appreciated.