Streaming audio - is it worth it?

Likewise, BUT, for me, I own no irreplaceable cd's, no true collectibles, and my plan is (with the proviso that "hope is not a plan") that I'll never need to re-rip any cd that I currently own.  We all have things that make us cringe and for me, putting a cd in my uServe is not one of them. 

There is a kind of flip side which I have benefited from. Less than perfect CDs (for whatever reason), if they can be ripped accurately, will get you good files to stream and you won't send the CDP into a frenzy every time you want to play them. Every cloud...

Wow, what a great thread on streaming. You guys must have put a lot of thoughts and time to come up with such informative posts. All the points discussed here are very valid and certainly helpful for those who want to go into computer or network streaming.

2 thumbs up!

While I have assembled a great Mac Mini based system, I still keep my CD5XS. Maybe it is time to re-consider selling in place for a PSU to my nDAC such as XPS-2?

Dear all,

I've recently started streaming from my MacMini/Playback (via WiFi) to the ND5XS (on Ethernet) and this works absolutely fine. However, as much as I still sometimes get a 'wow' effect, I also struggle sometimes when I think about the complexity of the technology in the background (all those bits & bytes flying up and down through the house whilst we just listen to some music). So far I've had not a single dropout (unlike iRadio), but playback from CD or iPod directly connected to the ND5XS gives me a feeling of robustness that I might prefer in the longer run over streaming as a the main music delivery solution (as convenient as it undoubtedly is). - Totally subjective stuff, I know!

Stefan

I moved into a Mac/DAC based front end, when I found the combination that beat (to my ears) the outstanding quality and faultless performance of the CDS3. Sold the CDS3 (really well) on eBay and with the cash I managed to upgrade cables and PSUs and I can now safely say I am in hifi nirvana. 

But, having invested heavily on the DAC route I am still out to buy a CD transport.

Why?

(As Stefan concludes above) I feel that computer playback (or at least the interface between you and your music) is still a major hassle. Headless units (mac minis) relying on frail wifi, metadata incompatibilities, and a very limited selection of 16/44.1 music files to purchase, means that I am still buying CDs. Part of this is also that I prefer supporting artists with my purchases rather than online commercial outfits that care very little about the future of music.

Finally, having a large collection of CDs on display (which I spent years creating) means that folks that visit my place can browse, explore, check and listen. I love the "music" interaction with people. I hate the "hifi" interaction, especially the embarrassment when the remote controller has lost its IP connection and needs to be reset.

It just shows how people differ. I kind of feel that the streaming is giving me all the things that you like about having the CD's. Especially with visitors. They think it's great to just pick up the iPad, scroll about, play something, hit one icon and get more info and other recommendations etc. I don't really have any of the interaction problems that you describe. I still buy music exclusively on CD's too.

Yan thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

A few points of my reaction:

If you are comparing the purchase of a cd vs. the purchase of files online of the same cd, I do believe that "the artist" would benefit the same.  Obviously there are all sorts of contractual arrangements out there, but clearly no legit. seller of digital downloads can bypass the publisher.  (I too continue to buy a lot of cd's to rip to my server.  Many of them are used cd's which of course only benefit the re-seller, not the publisher or artist. ) 

The technical issues I can leave aside other than to note that my wi fi is not frail and my metadata are sound

As to browsing my collection, both my guest and I seem to enjoy browsing on my iPad.  I hand the iPad over to them and they can browse, but they are browsing easy-to-see lists organized by artist, album name, or genre, depending on their choice.

But your responses reflect some of the reasons why indeed the cd medium is not dead.

I have full appreciation for anyone who has built up a nice collection of CDs or LPs for that matter, and is keen on maintaining his 'trophies'. When it is all nicely sorted in a rack and looking pretty it is hard to image to get rid of it.

Let me give you an example if an evening coming home.

I power up the hifi via a central switch. I make myself comfotable and may pour a glass of wine. I grab the iPad and scroll through my library. This is usually not a random search, 'cause there's been something on the car radio which inspired me. However, I have no way of telling in which direction the evening will develop, musically that is .

I may jump from Neil Diamond to Leonard Cohen continuing to Wagner. Everyting is possible, at the tip of my finger. I sometimes look up details of the title, the artist or the composer on the internet while listening. This pretty much replaces or surpasses any CD booklets; though I have to admit that this isn't always the case.

When I decide to go to bed, I usually put on a good night's tune on my Squeezebox Radio which is served by the same library as my main system in the lounge. How comfortable.

what?

you let others fiddle with your iPad?!? 

only kidding 

...still there seems to be a conflict with my new router, my wifi printer and the Remote.app on my iPad. which causes the Remote.app to loose connection with the library after the iPad wakes from sleep. Go figure…

but it's indicative of the kind of issues I am talking about.

re: music distribution.

this is a big subject, and even more so after Thom Yorke's recent remarks on the consequences of the 'Rainbows' experiment.

Which I kind of agree, as, despite the hifi issue I have with purchasing mp3s (I never do), I somehow can't see what Amazon, Apple, MS or Cisco give back to music. It was bad enough when the majors exploited artists a few decades ago, but at least some of their money went back to producing new music.

Personally I have long stopped being interested in mainstream music, but with the goodness of the internet I can keep up with cutting edge music and support a number of artists and publishers (Wergo, Edition RZ, Kairos, Erstwhile, Another Timbre, etc), by just buying their CDs.

re: metadata and browsing

As the author of the successful 'iBatch for iTunes' app (sorry for the self-promotion), I can confess that organising your music files is not as simple (for most people) as you might suspect.

_____

the thing is that I am not actually against PC playback. I have ripped all my CDs and do enjoy my superfast ethernet connection to my mini from my own laptop.

I just hilighted a few areas of concern for the OP

The short answer is that it's not worth buying the ND5 over the Mac Mini for sound quality reasons, when partnering it with the nDAC. The two are pretty much indistinguishable in the context of most systems. Even if you could hear a difference that difference will be negligible and one not necessarily "better" than the other. You would be better off investing your the money saved into a PSU for the nDAC. That said, you may want to purchase the ND5 for other reasons, such as having a UPnP streamer, wanting to use nStream, although it still has shortcomings such as no in-track fast forwarding / rewinding, etc. The biggest benefit of nStream as I see it is its access to Rovi's, an interactive metadata database allowing you to flick through album art, booklets and band information. It's the biggest plus point of nStream IMHO. Otherwise it really is nothing special and still quite a bit behind other control apps. 

I have done a test and could not conclude my CD5XS sounds better than the Mac Mini both feeding into nDAC.

my CDs are sorted alphabetically and i can find any CD in a few seconds. I dont get it why anyone having a CDS3 ( me included) would want to go through streaming, as the gain is not worth the pain in my view. This technology may be the future, but right now it is too immature of a market. stick with your CDs and in a few years, when a winning technology has emerge you can reconsider.my ten cents

Louis, I am very envious. I am afraid I a lot more disorganised and streaming was a great solution for me to find and listen to my recordings.

Horses for courses.

BTW the CDS3 is cracking.. It took me an NDX into NDAC / 555PS on Fraim before i had a source I was more happy with... That is a real credit to the CDS3, and I have been streaming since the late 1990s and seen the technology and mature.

Simon

The whole streaming thing is very interesting. I wonder if someone could just explain to me if it works well with a Mac?

How does the whole thing connect together?

I assume that you run a UPnP client on your Mac (like Asset). Do you then physically connect a NAS storage drive to the MAC and also connect this same storage drive to your Router (Such as Airport Extreme)?

Regards

Hey Jason,

In this thread you 'll find a link to a free book that might answer the majority of your questions: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/19447375216556940

Iver

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

I'm actually more concerned with the physical set-up.

I'd like to set up my network with cable rather than going wireless. I'm thinking about the Synology DS212j as my NAS drive with the FLAC files installed on it.

With Asset UPnP installed on a macbook air, I can connect a USB cable to the NAS. The NAS then connects via Cat5 to an Apple Airport Extreme.

Is this correct?

Then, the Apple Airport Extreme runs another Cat5 cable to an ND5 XS. The ND5 XS then allows you to select and play the music.

Do I have all this right?

If anyone could look at this set up and tell me if this is the best way of doing things or if there is some other, I'd most appreciate it.

Jason

Jasom, if you are going to get a NAS why don't you just install your choice of UPnP software there ?

Then you just use Ethernet cable to connect you NAS to your router and a second Ethernet cable to connect your router to your ND5XS.

As an alternative you could buy an Ethernet switch and connect all your wired devices and router to this to create a LAN. This is probably the most robust way as purpose built switches tend to be better than those installed in routers.

A friend of ours puts her music out through iTunes. She told us she is paid 80c in the dollar. I doubt a CD deal is as good as that for the artist.

http://billythekidonline.com/site/music/

Hey Jason,

You better connect the NAS (Network (!) Attached Storage) via Cat5e to the Airport Extreme and not via USB to the Mac. This allows you to control the NAS from anyplace in the house. Furthermore, since the NAS is connected to the network, you can access it from anywhere from the house. Ensure you use at least Cat5e or Cat6. Prices for these cables are more than acceptable. Cat5e or Cat6 are capable of handling much bigger data flows, so you never get into trouble with High Resolution of streaming movies etc.

Furthermore; check on Assett. Normally it runs only on WIndows. I have noticed there is a beta version for Mac but haven't tested it.

The Synology is an excellent choice

Good luck

Iver

Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.

In answer to 'Is streaming audio worth it?' ... I would answer in the affirmative. I am now happy with my streaming audio setup, which comprises Windows 8 (x64) laptop / JRiver Media Center 18 / JPlay / M2Tech Hiface Evo with Paul Hynes SR2 Power Supply / Naim Audio DAC with Naim XPS Power Supply.

I have spent the last two years since I purchased my DAC tinkering with different options. I would say that the largest improvements were offered by the addition of the Paul Hynes supply for the Evo and the XPS supply for the DAC.

I have a CDS2/XPS, which does not offer digital output but to my ears, the streaming audio setup offers an improvement over the CDS2/XPS. I have to be happy with that. Anything that can better the CDS2/XPS has to be a worthwhile addition!