OPPO 105 as an AV processor?

Hi,

I have tried this and there's no issues running the Oppo's 7.1 outputs as volume controlled straight into power amps however I did find that after the Oppo had been off for a few hours (typically overnight and until the next evening) that I was getting some quite loud "buzzing" through the centre and rear channels ... Seemed as though the outputs were floating but it could just have been the unit that I was using - worth keeping an eye out for...

Cheers

Phil

I just recently installed a 105EU/Naim setup and the customer is over the moon, it really does work a treat, we didn't come across any buzzing that you mention Phil, just a slight hum when in unity gain and the OPPO is switched off, but as soon as the OPPO is turned on this disappears so no problem really.

The system I installed was a 282/200 then 2 x 155's for rears and centre, the front L+R outs from the OPPO went to the AV in on the 282 and the centre and rears direct to the 155's, then he used the cd input for his ND5 XS then switched to the AV button in unity gain for a full 5.1 system using the variable volume on the OPPO to control the volume level, it was extremely easy to set-up with the help of some custom cables from Naim and works faultlessly, a great way to implement a fantastic hifi system with top notch cinema. 

A highly recommended solution in my opinion 

The Oppo does seem a really good product but also it does seem that it is a little hit and miss as to whether you get noise on the analogue outputs when the unit is turned off.

I had another Naim dealer contact me after my previous posting here to say that he'd set up a system using the Oppo as the AV processer and had the same problem and had I found a way around it - we've both been in contact with Oppo over it but things have gone quiet from their end at the moment...

Well I finally got around to getting my 105 this weekend.  Stunning picture - great depth of field and actually almost to vivid colours, and as expected the sound is better on the blu-rays and having the centre driven by a 180.

Only problem - I've got the very latest firmware from last week, and my centre (oppo direct into nap180) is HUMMING when the oppo is in standby :-(     I've taken to turning off the nap180 at present.

Is it possible to take front 2 ch to the 252 pre and use say a 100 to run rears only.  I'd rather not run centre speaker or sub as happy for my s-600's to take care of those duties! Ie can you run 5.1 but stereo front to assume the centre and the .1 also?

thanks

You can, but you shouldn't

Your 600s will be asked to deal with a full range stereo signal, to reproduce bass that the rears are incapable of rendering (unless you've got another pair of 600s at the back - the NAP 100 doesn't suggest that to be the case), they will also have to render the entire full range centre channel, and then the dedicated LFE subwoofer track.

Even with the world's finest processor, redirecting two entire channels, plus all the deep bass from the rears, is a recipe for degradation at source, and then your 600s have to try to cope with all of that extra info.

Bad idea.

In the days of Dolby Prologic the surround signal was matrixed into a stereo track. The centre and rears were deliberately bandwidth-limited, there was no subwoofer channel. 

Hence the "Phantom Centre" approach you suggest was actually a supported option. The other being "3 stereo" for folk prepared invest in a centre but no rears.

5.1 has been around for about 20 years in the home environment,  originally starting with Dolby AC3 (which became known as Dolby Digital soon after) via Laserdiscs. I've been enjoying my movies in this way far longer than enjoying my music on a Naim system. However, in recent years, and with a lot of experimentation, I've successfully blended the two in one setup..

If you want to run an Oppo through your two channel rig, my suggestions is to decide on one of two paths:

1) Do it properly with a NAP-V145 driving a centre, a sub in play, and your proposed solution for the rears.

2) Still use an Oppo 105, employing the excellent downmix to stereo mode through the dedicated 2ch board, and forget about surround sound. 

The middle ground between these two is rocky, disappointing, and will ultimately force you back to one of the two choices above. 

All the best

Mike

Excellent advice Mike! If you're going to go for surround sound, do it properly with a speaker per channel & don't try & muddle through without a centre channel speaker or subwoofer, you're better off  sticking to a stereo setup.

Thought I'd jump on this thread which I thought was interesting because using an Oppo 105 directly to power amps is something I am toying with. Did I read correctly that Paul@Hifi Lounge was using a single 155 to power the centre speaker? Is that possible?

Hi Renzo,

That is correct, it is a bit of a waste of one channel but as there are no mono options available from Naim it seemed like the best solution, would possibly go with a Nap 100 now but that wasn't available at the time.

I did get Naim to make up the cable from the OPPO to the Nap 155 so there would be no reason why you couldn't bi-amp the centre if it is a big centre, in this case it really wasn't necessary.

Works a treat though 

I have a slightly different question.

I run Oppo 103 optical output into nDAC/555PS and then into 282/HC/250.2 stereo -- volume is controlled by 282.

If I use Oppo 103 analogue outputs for centre/rear (straight into two NAP155) and LFE output (into sub) how would I control the volume?

Alternative question -- what should I add/change/do to turn the above package into a high quality HT? (btw I would be happy to run L/R/C/LFE and no rears)

Thanks for the reply Paul.I'm using a Proac CC2 centre which is a pretty decent size.  Does that mean that you use just one speaker cable from the power amp to the speaker, the other chanel is left unattached? What cable did you have made up to connect the Oppo to the poweramp?

Thanks

Correct Renzo, I got Naim to make me up a 2 x RCA to din, then I just connected one of the RCA's to the centre out from the OPPO and then hooked up one channel to the centre from the amp, alternatively I'm sure you could get the 2 RCA's put into one RCA to din which would then mean you could Bi-amp your centre, this is not something I have tried though.

Hope that makes sense 

I'm guessing you could run a similar system to what I outlined above as we used a 282/200 so not  a million miles away, so you would utilise unity gain on the 282 and set the volume to variable on the OPPO, so for cinema the OPPO would control the volume.

Sounds right.  See my faq.

John

Thanks -- I shall get back to docs and see how to set up a unity gain on 282.

Still have some questions:

1) Is it OK to run Oppo 103 central/rear straight into Naim power amps (for example NAP155).

I believe gain is the same for all Naim poweramps. 

2) So when I use optical output for nDAC/555PS/282/250.2 into Left/Right speakers I actually pull original 5.1 audiostream and use LR channels of it? Not a stereo down mix?

3) If I set 282 to the unity gain -- what's the use of expensive 282/HC?

Can I run nDAC/555PS straight into 250.2? Or 282 still works as impedance matching in unity gain mode? (I thought signal bypasses all 282 circuitry -- when in unity gain mode)

1) Yes

2) No. That will be a stereo downmix.  Your nDac and Oppo cannot between them give you anything else.

3) Well, your nDac/555PS doesn't have variable gain, so as long as you want great stereo sound via that combo you will need the282/HiCap2.

There is an alternative. Set the Oppo analogue outputs to variable, get a 2RCA to XLR lead made up by Chord to run the Oppo105 straight to your 250, and use it as a 2 box stereo system. 

Even if you upgraded to the superior Oppo 105 for better 2ch output, I bet it won't be long before you reconnect your nDac / 555PS and 282/HiCap2, and stop querying the benefits of those expensive boxes!

nDAC/282/HC250.2 is my second system which I only use for HT but in stereo mode.

So I'm trying to understand how to use most of it for a proper 5.1 HT.

I'm OK to buy more Naim power amps but something does not sum up in my head.

It seems I should a make choice:

either Oppop103-Optical-nDAC/555PS/282/HC250.2 stereo

or Oppo-103/analogue + 5 Naim power amps (like 3 stereo poweramps), no preamps and volume control comes from Oppo.

Because I do not see a value of running expensive 282/HC in unity gain mode.

Is the above line of thoughts correct?

OK....

From that point of view, with the system being exclusively Oppo/Naim (on the source/processing/amp side of things), then the logical choice would be to ditch the nDac/555PS/282/HC and the 103, and instead use the following:

Oppo 105, 2 x NAP250 & 1 x NAP145 (effectively a mono 250).

The 105, over the 103, uses Sabre Dacs instead of Cirrus, and has a dedicated 2 channel board which can be configured to run as front L&R in 5/7.1 mode  -  the benefit being that if you're watching a concert DVD in PCM stereo, it will sound very good.

Don't get me wrong, that 2ch PCM track would sound better still through the nDac/555/282/HC - but would be difficult to justify keeping all of those boxes for a handful of 2ch playback moments.

In the meantime, the 105 sounds better than the 103, and you have effectively 5 equal channels to go to your 5 speakers (or 7 if you add a third NAP250).

If you only had one system, or you listened to loads of 2ch on this system, then keeping Naim source/pre/psu boxes would make sense - with what you describe, it doesn't. At least not from my point of view.

If you look at my previous posts & profile you'll see that I'm coming from the opposite point of view - I have one system which must do everything equally well. At the moment I'm using an n-Vi to do the equivalent job to the Oppo & 3ch of amps....  I do have a plan to replace the n-Vi with an Oppo & 145 + 250 - but as I'll still be listening to my LP12 through that, my 82, 2 Hicaps & Superline will definately stay.

Hope this helps

Mike

Thanks for clarifications Mike.

I understand that Naim does not offer a real audiophile-grade HT solution.

It's a pity because Naim sounds fantastic and would be my choice for HT.

I think I should buy a purpose-built AV processor like Anthem and run it from Oppo 103 optical output.

I possibly should start placing my questions in the new way: assume I got Denon/Pioneer/Anthem/Whatever -- can it be improved by running it's output into Naim power amps?

And what Naim power amp does it take to better a built-in poweramp in Denon/Pioneer/Anthem/Whatever -- in the context of HT?