When buying new vinyl what quality of pressing would you reject

Hi David,  

Also received my copy of the Eva Cassidy yesterday. On first play I was delighted both with the SQ and pressing of both vinyls. However there was a degree of slightly irritating pops & clicks on both. I put this down to static so cleaned all four sides this afternoon and played each side. Not all the pops have disappeared but the clean has certainly helped. So to answer your question I will not be returning my copy.  However I have had some real 'stinkers' on reissued vinyl which went straight back after the first play of the first track.  I have also hung on to copy's that probably should have gone back to Amazon. Returns are one of my pet hates with regard to Amazon it such a faff. Unlike Naim who replaced a faulty vinyl copy almost by return of post before they had received it with no questions asked.

Regards Graham.

Interesting. I picked up my copy this morning. Hopefully it won't be suffering like that, but it wouldn't be the first time with 180g re issues that I've been disappointed with the quality. Having said that most have been excellent. Currently listening to Chet Baker Sings & Plays 180g re issue that I also picked up from the sorting office this morning and it's damned near perfect!

Reissue vinyl can be variable in quality and certainly more so than when we used to buy LPs in the their heyday. Poorly centred holes are more common today than in the past as are poorly centred labels. I had one label that was so bad that it encroached on the run off groove. I also find the record surface can have finger marks and other blemishes. I always put my new vinyl for a spin on the RCM before playing and then decide on the SQ. Warping is no more frequent than it was in the old days but static on removing the record from the sleeve does seem to be worse. Another reason for a clean before playing.

With regard to returns with Amazon I find it's OK. They always give a refund so I return the record and order a new copy which arrives the next day.

Steve

When I was buying a lot of Classic Records LP releases back in the '90s I was always delighted by the exceptional quality, both in sound and in presentation, with not a single LP rejected for faults - good thing too as I was importing many of them from the US.  I think it was RTI who were doing the pressing back then, and I have to say, I couldn't fault them.  In fact I can't recall any single LP that I had to reject back then - the general pressing quality was that good, whether it be Testament, Speakers Corner, Alto, Reference Recordings or whoever.  The first problems started to appear with the arrival of more mainstream offerings also touting the "audiophile" 180gm pressings.  Here the QC wasn't so good and I am consistently disappointed by the quality, to the point where I almost always think twice before buying.  I guess you get what you pay for, although thankfully I haven't yet had a duff Naim piece of vinyl.  Trouble is I've noticed the quality of premium offerings has dropped too.  My last Classic Records purchase was not as good as it should have been.  Not by a long way...

A good case in point Richard is the difference in the EU and US pressings of the recent Beatles vinyl reissues. There have been huge complaints from across the pond.

I agree about the later Classic Record issues. I've had a few of dubious quality. Maybe they weren't as conscientious toward the end before they folded.

If you have a lot of vinyl David it's worth buying an RCM. They don't just clean the record but also remove static, improve SQ and lengthen the life of your stylus.

Steve

I'd second Steve's RCM recommendation.  It need not cost so much, a Nitty Gritty Basic or Okki Nokki will come in around £300.

I can't help but feel that vinyl production is caught (yet again?) in a vicious circle; more faults results in more returned LPs which puts more pressure on cutting costs, so less QC, more faults resulting in more returned LPs, etc... Can it be any coincidence that despite the vinyl revival even the best reissue labels struggle to remain viable, not to mention the number who have already folded.  I'm delighted that Naim is offering vinyl (especially now they also come with hi res lossless downloads) but from my discussions with Simon and Paul I get the impression that Naim's vinyl offerings are done much more for love than money...

Richard, agree with the above in general, it's pot luck with re-issue. I have also debated if its worth the cost / time. However, Steve J has kindly pointed me in the right direction on more than one occasion for which I am very grateful.

Yesterday I had two re-issues arrive one from Pure Pleasure Records, Ann Peebels "I Can't  Stand The Rain', which you recommended on the Clasic Soul thread & Dan Penn "Do Right Man", on Music On Vinyl. Both labels recommend by SJ . Both pressings have restored my faith in re-issues for SQ , pressing, production. They are both so quiet even on the run in and out. Motto some you win some you lose.

Regards Graham.

Thanks Graham.  Already have a nice original 1st press of the the Ann Peebles but it's good to know your recent experience has been good.  Perhaps I've just been really unlucky of late.  Maybe I should go for a couple of Donny Hathaway reissue LPs that I've been tempted by since the Soul thread.

Indeed. The most important time to clean a record is when it's brand new. It removes left over mold release compound and that's the best prevention against click and pops later on. The more residual compound is bound to grooves by heat transfer from the stylus, reversing the damage becomes less likely.

Anything with more than one hole?

lol I kill myself...

I want them flat with no pops and good highs.  I look for the height of the sound envelope or image.  I have had rolled off highs which makes Sinatra seem 4' tall.   Sometime it is the recording, but sometime it is the equipment.    I have sent back many Classic RCA, Warner, Mosaic.   Beware the digital vinyl out there today.  Great package and crappy sound.  Just listen to vintage anything vs the reissue.  Buy the vintage if you can.  The record cleaner machine is key, even for the new stuff.  

All

I bought a 180g remastered copy of Supertramp Breakfast In America last year. Sound quality was excellent but the pressing quality was rubbish.  When I raised this with the supplier this was their response as I recall it. 

Sound quality and pressing quality vary across the suppliers. Typically if you want a better pressing you need to source American or Japanese copies and pay the premium.  Basically with vinyl its part of the medium. No refund was offered. This was vinyl specialist supplier.

Unfortunatly quality is hit and miss.  This is why I tend to stick with good old cd even though I want to buy vinyl.  Even then quality varies.

You can't win folks.  However if anything kills vinyl it will be the suppliers poor quality pressing or rip off prices.

Trevor

These "audiophile" reissue people should stand by what they sell, especially at premium prices.

Its too bad its really up to the retailers to accept the return.  Here in the US, I have nothing but good things to say about Acoustic Sounds. I've sent back 3-4 LPs with major and even very minor issues, and they've always taken them back and replaced or refunded them without questions.

Acoustic Sounds is great. I have also been buying from MusicDirect and Elusive Disc in the US. They all accept returns of defective LPs.

Am I missing something here?

I thought LP production was a repeatable process.

I don't understand why the rejection rate as of today should be so high. (dishing,off centre,  warping, clicks and pops)

Some of the "light weight "  pressings of yesteryear put some of  todays heavyweight pressings to shame.

Are there some pressing companies jumping on the gravy train and ignoring Q.A.?

Will they destroy faith in the medium as a result?

Personally I find the process of buying new vinyl a bit of a lottery at the moment, and somewhat off -putting.

Still I persevere in hope.

Acoustic Sounds and Music Matters are terrific but for us in the UK they are very expensive. I usually reserve buying them when my kids visit their Mum in Florida. I've yet to be disappointed with the quality of vinyl.

What also has surprised me recently is MoFi. I've yet to hear a decent single LP reissue but their 45rpm Bob Dylan issues are superb.

Pure Pleasure are very good SQ wise here in the UK with full analogue mastering but I have had a couple of off centre labels.

I have been collecting vinyl for some 40 years and was in the record retail business during the 80s as a buyer. The defect rate now is no worse than it was in the past. With Music Matters, Analogue Productions, and some of the other better labels I have had good success. Overall the quality is far better than it was, especially compared to the 70s and 80s.

I have purchased only two MoFi records in the past years. One came defective. I don't know where they press, but I was not terribly impressed with either compared to pressings from RTI, Pallas, QRP, etc.

When I worked in industry there was/is  a culture called continuous improvement.

Surely there are areas (highlighted ) that are not beyond this.

Overall the quality is far better than it was, especially compared to the 70s and 80s.

Judging from  personal experience I wouldn't say " far better".

p.s. Please don't mis-quote me : I didn't say "perfectly repeatable", although it's something that manufacturers should aspire to.

50% rejection rate!

Not good.

In the U.S. quality was abysmal, especially throughout the 70/80s. If we wanted something half decent it had to come from UK, NL, Germany, Japan, etc. 

I stand by my statement that pressing quality is "far" better than it was in the 70s and 80s. I have a record collection of some 3000 LPs with pressings spanning the period from the early 60s to today. My best quality pressings are the ones manufactured in the past couple years.