Why does a SuperUniti/UnitiServe sound better networked?

This is an interesting thread for me for two reasons 

Firstly, I've discovered that my two NAS drives sound very different over the same network into my NDS.

Secondly, I was considering whether the unitsiserve may be the best way to go and, along with the OP, whether the dig out of the untiserve would negate any network gremlins and give the best results.

I have my newtork set up in the way suggested - Router with one cable to a network switch, and NAS drives and NDS running off that switch. Im not sure why the two NAS drives sound different, or have the technical knowledge to investigate. 

I was considering a SSD Unitiserve if it offered audibly better results than either of my two NAS drives.  The results I'm currently getting are great (especially using one of the NAS drives), but I cant help but thinking that the investment in hi end streaming products is in some way put at risk by a poorly set up network or by suing the wrong/poorly set up NAS drives. If I only had the "Bad sounding" NAS drive I'd be none - the wiser (I'd assume I was getting the best results because I have set up my network in the suggested way). In some respects a CD and CD player give less margin for error...

So... my question is, have Naim investigated the best way to set up a network and do they have a defintive answer? Assuming they'd suggest a Unitivserve as a NAS, what is the optimal way of using this with a Naim streamer? I think this sort of uncertainly puts a lot of people off using newtwrok streaming, which is a shame as the NDS beats any CD player I've heard (even using my "bad" NAS!). For those of us that have adopted streaming, a definitive piece of guidance to get the best results would be appreciated.

Cheers

UHi Zeplin, well of course using Ethernet technology there are thousands of different ways to achieve the same or similar outcome, with networks it is never black or white. Ethernet's TCP (Transport Control Protocol) is designed to be dynamic. This dynamism provides efficiency and robustness but in turn effects network activity and buffer sizes amongst other things. Now the question does this matter? Well it shouldn't but in the real world and indeed you have heard this by the sound of it, these variables affect sound, since components in our audio components have to work invariable ways. Not dissimilar to PCM and FLAC for example. 

Is A better than B? Well this is surely subjective as ultimately all music reproduction is a compromise and you need to chose wich compromise works best for you.. ( a bit like the vinyl / CD debate raging elsewhere on this forum right now)

I can imagine these variables or lack of certainty  could play on people's imaginations.. Am I getting the best sound quality ??? The disease of the audiophile.. So I guess your options if you are cursed with that condition is go closed Naim system, that is is a Unitiserve into Naim renderer or experiment and decide yourself..

FWIW I have a seperate upnp server for my NASes, and I am very happy with my how upnp server and hardware works. I use a switch and ensure my wifi for my control points supports multicast for fast reliable Nstream operation. I ensure my wired LAN supports multicast and broadcast correctly so i can safely use DHCP (with some infinitely assigned or reserved addresses such as for my upnp server) without having to faff about with fixed host assigned IP addresses.. Which is  not really good practice. I also take steps to keep high broadcast traffic away from my audio network, and put that broadcast into other subnets. That way I keep the spurious network load on my Naim Ethernet streamer board to a minimum.

HiFiCritic wrote up an interesting investigation of sound quality variations between different NAS drives and even different RAID configurations :

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/h...ening_to_storage.htm

My totally unscientific guess is that there are so many variables when it comes to home networking that blanket suggestions from Naim resulting in the "best" sound quality may not be possible. That said, explorations like that written by HiFiCritic are nonetheless interesting!

We need to consider how Naim have implemented the S/PDIF output. The Unitiserve is an excellent server, but I am told that compromises have been made elsewhere.I know many consider it to be over priced, but Naim have crammed a lot of functionality into a small box. It's not too surprising if it isn't as good when used as a CD transport or hard disk player.

Regards,

Keith

And we need to consider what someone means when they say "compromises." 

And are we comparing to what some may say are technical compromises to sonic output?

Keith, while I think that these are interesting questions, we're about as likely to reach a conclusion about them as we are to the "cd vs. vinyl" questions ;-)

I would sooner rely on the experience of the owners.  I own one and think it sounds "great."  But I have not compared it to other servers from other manufacturers.  Nor have I directly compared the spdif output to the UPnP output as my Naim DAC was incompatible with the latter.  Jan-Erik is more experienced with this and has written about it extensively here over the past months.

Simon, Bart, Jan Erik. Thanks for your responses - very interesting. I agree that there will be many variables in a home network that could affect sound quality, and we shouldn’t get too caught up by the "curse of the audiophile".

However, given the lengths Naim go to to achieve the best results from their electronics I do find it strange that all of this hard work could be partially undone by choosing the "Wrong" NAS or by wiring it up sub-optimally.  The article from Hi Fi critic backs this up to an extent -- the NAS drive appears to have an effect. Im not complaining that my system sounds ba, just perhaps not as good as it could due to sup optimal networking.

I'm going to arrange a trial of a Unitiserve (2TB version) to see whether this improves on either of my two current NAS drives, and whether the digital out can better UPNP. I'd be interested to hear the OP's experience on this too when his unit arrives. My hope is that the Digital out gives the best results as this would then eliminate the use of via ethernet and the possibility of getting things wrong via the network, although my prior research suggest this wont be the case. 

I would have thought Naim would have done this assessment for us. The Hi fi Critic artical states "This initial trial was not intended to be an exhaustive study into all the factors that can affect the sound quality of network and computer audio, only to confirm or deny the suspicion...".

Could we not expect the full trial and some sort of recommendation or white paper from Naim? Stephen Harris was involved in the trial after all.

To summarise my ramblings, my question to Naim would be: How do we optmise sound quality from Naim streamers using a) a third party NAS b) Naim unitiserve.

Maybe this has been asked many times before and I've missed it, apologies if so. However, this sort of uncertainty puts a lot of audiophiles off streaming IMO so it should be in Naim's interest to offer recommendations???

Cheers

Zeplin's post takes us nicely back to where I started; where I have been told that an Ethernet connection sounds better than a direct digital link. I've had lots of fun with cat 6 cables, and have an Ethernet switch on its way. But you can do all that for £50 or less, which is a fraction of the price of the Naim digital interconnect. Now that the SuperUniti is wired to the router, iRadio is much more stable than working wirelessly. 

Does a linear power supply brings performance with a unitiserve connected on a network ?

Improve performance ? Oddly enough, yes.

(further discussion of third party power supplies is off limits ; if you need more info, PM me at auditor at bell dot net)

Jan

Jan, not suprising.. As I have commented SMPS often cause interference on the mains by the very nature of how they work. Now this high frequency interference attenuates quite quickly, but I can see in some setups how it might couple into other nearby (sensitive) systems,

The SMPS curse IME very much applies to PSU for data switches etc. Keep these well away from your Audio PSUs, and if you have a noisy switch consider a LAN isolator.

I don't use a LAN isolator but use common mode chokes. However I have selected the  ethernet switch that 'sounds' best, which almost certainly means causes least RFI through the mains and Ethernet patch leads. I use a  remotely sited (to my audio stuff) Cisco 2960 8 port (with inbuilt internal SMPS) I used to use a little Netgear gigabit switch but found it far too electrically noisy.(it's wall wart SMPS was to blame)

Simon

This is a late response to Bart's point yesterday.

I have done the comparison between US and NDX into the DAC. I had hoped to save £2.5k on the streamer without SQ compromise, but no such luck. The US sounds relatively flat, grey and uninvolving. Does the NDX sound £2.5k better? Well, There's the question. These differences are relative, though. 

Keith

...and it may be that the differences between digital and UPNP from the US are smaller into Superuniti.

Hi Keith, can't comment on the cost and worth, but the NDX into a NDAC with 555PS (with careful RFI filtering) seems to have a strange synergy and is hugely rewarding. I have tried to downsize  from that 3 box setup, but there is NOTHING in the Naim portfolio that I have heard that betters it for me currently. 

The one area that I am hoping to hear an improvement one day.. Is highdef.. It leaves me unimpressed for the most part ( except for a few standout recordings) .. I can't work out whether it's the format or player..

But Redbook, and HDCD can sound truly wonderful which is most of the time.

Simon