I wasn't expecting that! Aka Rear speakers amp upgrade.

Posted by: rackkit on 10 June 2013

My rear n-Sat speaker have been driven with a NAP150 up to now and sounded fine. Getting plenty of rear action when the material demands it but i was curious about upgrading the amp after reading a comment from Frank Abela about how much of a difference a NAP200 was over the 150. 

 

So out came the 150 and in went the 200. Tested the levels again with a sound meter and the loaded a Blu ray disc to test Frank's findings. Woah -I wasn't expecting that! Instead of the rear effects seeming to come directly from the speakers themselves with not a great deal in-between , the whole of the rear sound field feels like it fills the space between them as well as it being seamless when steering from the front to back. The effect is now like being in a bowl of sound if that makes any sense? 

 

I'm guessing the improvements i'm hearing are because the NAP 200 is producing a bigger sound from the n-Sats. I've read many comments about being able to get away with virtually anything on the rears but i'd go against that theory now. Maybe it was asking too much of a NAP150 to handle the rear effects when a NAP 300 is driving the fronts and a NAPV 145 the centre. 

 

Really looking forward to watching the next Blu-ray! 

 

Posted on: 11 June 2013 by karyboue

I've 145 + 200 + 200 and I had the same feeling while everyone was saying there is no point in upgrading the rear amp ...

Posted on: 11 June 2013 by rackkit
Originally Posted by karyboue:

I've 145 + 200 + 200 and I had the same feeling while everyone was saying there is no point in upgrading the rear amp ...

What speakers are you running with your set up?

Posted on: 11 June 2013 by karyboue

I use unknown speakers : Floating technology :

Front : http://www.technologyfactory.e...aid=4097&lang=EN

Rear : http://www.technologyfactory.e...aid=1689&lang=EN

Center is a passiv sub + 2x 2-way sats (a good way to get around the positioning of an horizontal center speaker).

No Sub as the room is small

Posted on: 11 June 2013 by rackkit

Great looking speakers, i'm sure you've got them sounding great in your room. Interesting centre speaker/sub solution. I'm using n-Sats on the rear L/R, SL2s front L/R, Axess centre. All speakers are set to small through the AV2 leaving the n-Sub to do the LF stuff. Might have a play with Axess set to large at some point though.

Posted on: 11 June 2013 by MDS

rackkit

 

I've experimenting on my HT set up: n-Vi driving Focal 816WSE front L&R, Focal CC700s centre, Focal domes rear L&R, Rel strata II.  The settings were (naturally) small for the rear domes and large for the 816s but have varied between 'small' and 'large' settings for the centre speaker over several weeks. I eventually settled on 'large' for the centre speaker. This was rather curiously on the basis of better performance on dialogue rather than bass heavy material.  I appreciate the n-Vi doesn't offer fine-tuning of cut-off frequencies so your set-up might be more flexible but its worth experimenting.  The differences can be in areas that you wouldn't ordinarily expect.

 

MDS 

Posted on: 12 June 2013 by rackkit
Originally Posted by MDS:

rackkit

 

I've experimenting on my HT set up: n-Vi driving Focal 816WSE front L&R, Focal CC700s centre, Focal domes rear L&R, Rel strata II.  The settings were (naturally) small for the rear domes and large for the 816s but have varied between 'small' and 'large' settings for the centre speaker over several weeks. I eventually settled on 'large' for the centre speaker. This was rather curiously on the basis of better performance on dialogue rather than bass heavy material.  I appreciate the n-Vi doesn't offer fine-tuning of cut-off frequencies so your set-up might be more flexible but its worth experimenting.  The differences can be in areas that you wouldn't ordinarily expect.

 

MDS 

That's interesting MDS. I think i'm looking to get just a bit more clout from the centre speaker. Maybe it's source material dependant but at times it could just do with a bit more presence with dialogue. Did you use a sound level meter when setting up your speaker levels? 

Posted on: 12 June 2013 by MDS

No rackkit. I did it by ear, or more accurately, we did it by ear because I also had the benefit of my dealer's listening skills for the final and decisive listening session.  It's always re-assuring to have an expert ear confirm what your own ears are telling you.

MDS   

Posted on: 12 June 2013 by karyboue
I remember having set up my system by ear at first.
When I bought a sonometer, i verified that my ears were pretty well calibrated ;-)
Posted on: 12 June 2013 by karyboue
I remember having set up my system by ear at first.
When I bought a sonometer, i verified that my ears were pretty well calibrated ;-)
Posted on: 12 June 2013 by rackkit
I used a RadioShack digital sound level meter like this one.


Tried doing it by ear but the results were much better after using the meter.

Had another look into the centre speaker issue and it is down to the source material.
Posted on: 13 June 2013 by tonym

I reckon it's pretty well essential to use a sound meter to set up a surround system properly. I agree with your findings regarding the importance of good quality amplification and speakers for the surround channels Mr Rackkit - it never ceases to amaze me how many folk will post on here that they've added a cheapo amp & speakers to their top-notch stereo system & then decide surround's a waste of time & they prefer two-channel...

 

I confess I've not tried setting my Axess centre to large, I must give it a whirl when I get home. I have experimented at various times with setting the mains to small but my DBLs don't respond well to that.

Posted on: 13 June 2013 by BigH47

It was hardly cheapo kit I used ,but it was such a load of faffing about for little reward that I ditched it, a good 2 channel system gives a more than good enough sound, for our needs, which didn't warrant spending another large lump of dosh on a NAIM version.

 

Generally speaking most surround sound systems are used too loud so that you get the "effects" . 

Certainly the loudness of the reply at the cinema last week coupled with 3D vision was very distracting.

Posted on: 13 June 2013 by Frank Abela

rackkit, I feel guilty...

 

Incidentally, I would have set your system up completely the opposite - all speakers set to large. It does rather depend on the room too, but with those speakers I would normally expect to set them all to large for best results.

 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 13 June 2013 by rackkit
Originally Posted by Frank Abela:

rackkit, I feel guilty...

 

Incidentally, I would have set your system up completely the opposite - all speakers set to large. It does rather depend on the room too, but with those speakers I would normally expect to set them all to large for best results.

 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

You're a bad man Frank - haha! But thanks for that heads up, i was really surprised at the difference. 

 

As for speaker size settings, i can adjust all the speakers through the AV2 and the digital inputs that it decodes e.g. Virgin Tivo box, and the digital Co Ax from the Denon 3800 Blu-ray player but the HD audio from that uses the analogue connections as the AV2 can't decode Hi-res and the Denon's multi-channel audio settings will only allow large settings on the front L/R speakers. Centres, rears and surrounds are either off or small.

 

I don't fancy a mix of settings between the different inputs, so i'll leave things as they are. The Axess centre sounds fine with true 5.1 material but not so great using the AV2's movie mode with 2 channel material. Maybe i'm expecting too much of it on that setting?  

Posted on: 14 June 2013 by Frank Abela

Hmmm...I suspect it sounds worse because it's set to small...

 

seems a shame the BD player doesn't allow them to be set as large, but I guess such is life...

 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 16 June 2013 by rackkit

Would be interesting to hear the Naim AV guys opinions on centre speaker size settings.

Posted on: 17 June 2013 by rackkit
Have you tried your Axess yet Tony on large setting yet Tony. Also, how are you finding your Anthem gear compared to the Naim re sound quality? Cheers, Rack.
Posted on: 17 June 2013 by Frank Abela

Anthem rocks. I am most impressed with this brand. Sure, it's not in Naim's league, but it's by far the best I've heard for surround and musically isn't bad at all.

 

The unique room EQ stuff certainly helps I think.

 

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 17 June 2013 by karyboue

The new $1000 NuForce HD préamp AVP-18 can be interesting :

http://www.nuforce.com/index.p...ac-2&Itemid=1098

 

It has digital inputs only, so you keep the AV2 for analog (and SD ?) sources.

 

 

Questions are : how does it sound VS other HD pre-amps ? How does it compare VS Oppo NuForce players ?

I can't find reviews.

 

 

A Panasonic BDT500 + Nu Force "decoding" might be pretty interesting for less than an Oppo NuForce and more evolutive.

Posted on: 18 June 2013 by tonym
Originally Posted by rackkit:
Have you tried your Axess yet Tony on large setting yet Tony. Also, how are you finding your Anthem gear compared to the Naim re sound quality? Cheers, Rack.

Hi Mr Rackkit, sorry, only just switched to Axess to large so not much chance to try it yet but I'll put on a movie tonight for a proper listen.

 

The Anthem's really excellent; it took a while to run itself in so my memory of the previous AV2/NAP150 I was using has faded but it certainly sounds very good indeed and is a damn sight more convenient!