Electoral Reform?

Hmm....I know 18 year olds who are politically switched on and 80 year olds that are as naive politically as the day they were born!

If 18 is too young to vote then presumably it is too young to fight old men`s wars...less people willing to do their dirty deeds methinks.

Dear Steebo,

I happen to think that twenty-one would be a very good minimum age for Military recruits, at least for active service.

As for sixteen year olds understanding the long term significance of their political decisions, it is clear to anyone who has sixteen year plus a good many more,that  they would themselves soon concede that their wisdom as a sixteen year old was very much less. The real truth comes with wisdom not ideological zeal,which is a youthful proposition that is hammered out of people with life's merry dance,and this is a good thing as decisions become clearere and wiserr, more decisive, and less short term.

ATB from George

PS: May we keep this on voting age, however as the Military debate is something completely other.

None of that alters the fact that there are very stupid and downright ignorant old people as well as many that are full of knowledge and wisdom.

The same applies to the young, but at least they still have time on their side to become wise whereas an old person without wisdom has missed the boat. 

Wisdom has bugger all to do with age IMO,some old people have led closeted lives while some young people have been through hell at a young age.

How about throwing into the mix, the age of the person you were voting for ( in terms of elected governments, etc).

How would this stack up when voting for william pitt the younger, or a young conservative / labour party member ?

I'm with Steebo.

Age is no indication of knowledge or wisdom. I think people who want to vote should undertake an intelligence test before being allowed to do so.

agreed.

Provided it is adjudicated by the Conservative Party or Alex Salmond.

Cheers

Don

Maybe only tax payers should vote for how their money is spent?

On a (slightly) more serious note, I think that voting should be mandatory for those who are eligable to vote.

And the voting slip should contain the following option at the bottom of the list of candidates - "none of the above"

If "none of the above" wins, then that seat should be re-contested.

Cheers

Don

Perhaps those whp pay at the higher tax rate should get two votes ?

And those with big houses (who pay higher Council Tax) should get an additional vote as well...........

Cheers

Don

"A politician who robs from Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul's vote"

It rains on the just,

  and it rains on the unjust,

But it rains more on the just than the unjust,

  because the unjust has the just's umbrella.

ATB from George

"As societies grow decadent, the language grows decadent, too. Words are used  to disguise, not to illuminate, action: you liberate a city by destroying it.  Words are to confuse, so that at election time people will solemnly vote against  their own interests."

Gore Vidal

Dear Tony,

You, got it!

We take democracy for granted, and yet it is become decadent.

Politicians realise that the winning vote comes from the lowest common denominator, and thus civilisation is diminished.

People naturally put today's jam above tomorrow's interest for all.

I am glad that at 51 I have twenty years only, and can face off the decline of our civilisation.

But where does that leave our future generations?

I suspect that the reason why climate change is not being attacked as a topic by the political class is that we have already passed the point where the human specie is doomed. just like the dinosaurs. The Earth will carry on just fine with evolution,  without humans ...

As for my wish to weight older voters, it is quite simple. As one grow nearer the end than the beginning then one can view things with less self interest.

ATB from George

I like it, seriously, coming from a couny where a puppet turkey called Dustin polled quite well in a presidential election. ( and later did very badly in the Eurovision!)

I would go to jail before I would participate in the farce that is the electoral process in this country.  I last voted in '92, and I will never vote again in the US elections.  (I actually did cast my ballot in the Italian election - parliamentary government seems more fair and representative to me.) 

Two parties?  In this country there is really only one party; the "bought & paid for incumbent party."  I refuse to choose between a choice of sociopath liars, which is all we ever get.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken

I heard on the news that Iran is having an election, but apparently it is not very Democratic as all the candidates are Conservative !...sounds very familiar to me 

Truth is we are in a mess & some form of serious reform is well overdue. 

Discussing age edibility will get us nowhere; there are numbers of reasons to have all the suggested ages.  This is just tinkering with the edges.

I believe 18 is the right age for a number of reasons,  not least ……..  

At 16 you are able to marry/civil-partnership, own property.  But you are not able to leave full time education at 16 therefore earning a living to support a marriage/civil partnership is a problem.    

At 18 you are more likely to be thinking about the above & be focused & planning your future.  Plus many other rights kick in at that age. 

21 is just an historical age that these days has no real bearing on anything.  

IMO the Scottish move to 16 just for the referendum is not constitutional; but I guess they need to do something to show the rest of UK they are going to do their own thing & do it their way.

I see all the signs of the vote going NO, but I worry its getting ugly.  The shameful behavior against UKIP for one example; individually we may not like that party but they do have supporters in Scotland & the UK is supposed to be the model of free speech & democracy – isn’t it??

I would be more supportive of a change to PR as a priority.

It needs to include a serious rationalisation of constituency realignment.  But coupled to the same changes;  the House of Commons is too English/London centric & that must be recognised as a true & legitimate failing for the UK as a whole.  The UK needs to have separate legislative houses in Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland, but also England & for the House of Commons to assume UK federal responsibilities only.

Then an elected House of Lords, or do we actually need a House of Lords.

The Cynical view on 16 year olds being allowed to vote on the scottish referendum would suggest this has been done to achieve the SNP  Yes vote ,the rebelious youth etc etc   If you watched this weeks question time  from Edinburgh you will have seen the Anti English sentiment from some of the young voters and SNP panalist.

Perhaps Mr Salmond should ask the English to vote on Scottish  independance , he may get what he wished for.

Back to the question , should 16 year olds vote , well if you pay tax and can fight for your country then i would say you deserve  a vote on your future, you may make the wrong choice initially but considering the current Eton boys club  running the country , the over 18s are prone to the odd gaff !

Salmond underestimates the common sense of our youth.  History shows us the appetite for independence has changed little since 18thC. Unlike other countries who have sought and won independence we have never been systematically oppressed and have a common language and culture.  The majority appetite for it was not there hundreds of years ago and it won't change by next year. G

GraemeH ,

I should have balanced my comment ref question time, There was also a large proportion of  young voters who were willing to question the SNP.  

 Being Midlands based I can understand the dislike of being goverened by a parliment based in London that seems to focus on the benefit of the South East, perhaps a separate  English assembly to match our Scottish , Welsh and Northern Irish cousins would be beneficial and  a new UK parliment in the middle of the UK  would be  a reform worth considering...... MPs travel expenses would be less for  a start.

As with all issues of 'nationalism' scratch the surface and an unpleasant aspect of it is there beneath.  Very much a minority view - but good television of course. 

Slightly greater devolved 'powers' might result and at least the issue will go away again for a generation. G

I have just read Iain Banks final interview in The Guardian,one of his last quotes on British politics reads... 

`Squeeze practically any Tory, any Blairite and any Lib Dem of the Orange Book persuasion, and it's the same poisonous Thatcherite pus that comes oozing out of all of them`

Love it!