Going from CDX2/XPS to NDS/XPS: A digital journey

Michel, all good stuff, but remember CDs are purely digital and propelled us into the digital age 25 years ago!

I look at streaming as an alternate CD transport.. Or like a CD carousel. Ripping is a chore, but for me far less so that the time it takes to download a PCM or FLAC file ( I only have 3Mbps broadband link).

Of course the big advantage of CDs is the backup (and to a lesser extent the jewel case info) 

I am an early adopter and I  downloaded and created mp3s in the late 1990s for my Rio player long before iPods ever existed. For the most part where I didn't have the CDs the mp3s have been lost, or corrupted, and of course mp3 encoders have hugely improved over that time.

The first CD I ever bought in 1986 still rips and I keep it safe and play from its rip with my streamer. I guess because I have been ripping and streaming since the late 90s I now appreciate the value of the CD backup.. And given the choice elect CDs as my ultimate master backup for NAS stored music. As some of my CD recordings are no longer available and cost a fortune to replace from the collectors market if possible at all, this seems sensible.

BTW I think the next big thing in digital audio will be muticast or true broadcast PCM or hidef Internet radio... This will completely eclipse current web radio standards.

Simon

I know the u/serve may seem expensive to some but boy does it make the ripping process easy. For me it's a key component to a digital set up and negates the hassel out of ripping and the need for computer skill! 

i am surprised you found the cdx2 on the same par as the NDS as I have read others holding it close to the 555cd player. 

i currently use an ndac with 555ps (U/s) on the end of a 252/300/sl2,'s) - I keep contemplating the NDS but as yet have not arranged a demo. It's not clear to me where my digital set up sits in the hierarchy of Naim's digital sources. The very informative Simon is an advocate of the NDX so the NDS is not a no brainer for all. 

I keep using my cd journey as a reference I.e. the CDs was such an obvious step up to the CDx to me it was a no brainer.

Do I wait  for a reference dac and if it comes along can I afford it or do I dive into a demo on the NDS v my current set up. just need a little time in my life to get to an informed decision .......

Gary

Simon,

You are, of course, right about the CDs being digital. I should have written "a streaming journey" to be correct.

What I was trying to get at is that streaming requires going over a huge activation energy barrier. Once you are over it, it is just great and there is no chance of going back. I was also trying to explain that once streaming from the web reaches the quality of CDs at a reasonable price, most, if not all of the activation energy is gone. Moreover, someone will have backed up all your favorite CDs for you. There are providers who do that. However, web streaming is not yet integrated in Naim products. You need to plug a computer, which I will eventually do but not on a permanent basis. Ideally, I would like to be able to tap into web services just as I do with the iRadios. Incidentally, I still prefer a 100 times my Magnum Dynalab FM radio receiver over iRadio. There's also a lot of improvement in the waiting here.

Michel

Hi Michel

I recognise much of what you say from when I first got into streaming with my NDX. I was using Assett on my PC as a server and although the program was fine, I found the process of using a computer to rip and serve the music tiresome after a long day at work. So after much deliberation, I purchased a Unitiserve 18 months ago which has completely transformed how I listen to my music collection and I now consider it to be an indispensable component of my system.

ATB

Ray

Hi Gary,

Le Studio Hifi in Versailles organized a demo of various setup for Naim 40th birthday with the help of the importer. I had the chance of listening to the NDS with the 555PS and compare it to the CD555 into a 552 and 500, all on Fraim. Speaker were Proac K6. This is pretty much the top of the line in the Naim range. Both sources provided fantastic music but I felt that the CD player was more natural, more like live music. I still have the feeling that there is still room for improvement for streamers. After all the NDS in an NDS and not an ND555 and belongs to the classic range... Anyhow, as I said, I lived for 8 years with the CDX2 and loved it. I will certainly live for years with the NDS which is fantastic. There is no chance I will get the CD555. I still like the CDX2 and will use it whenever I will feel the nostalgia of spinning a silver disk. Actually, my dealer told me that he felt that a CDX2 plugged into the NDS is comparable to a CDS3 which is good news. Mine has to be upgraded to the CDX2.2 to be able to do that.

Michel

Hi Ray,

You are right but the Uniserve is more expensive than a good NAS and is a closed solution. Also, I wanted to put away the storage thanks to an ethernet network in the house. With the Unitiserve, either you have it in the listening room and it has to be the SSD version for quietness and the price adds up to the NAS or you put it away and you have to go where it is located to rip. With a laptop, you can rip wherever you are working.

Michel

Interessting that you see the CDX2 close to the NDS. In my system and with a 555ps it made a huge difference. The NDS seems to be much more grown up and the systems seems to be in a better balance Plus the convinience of streaming. Super fun, I love it.

Stefan 

Actually, my NDS is pretty new. I am not a big fan of the idea that systems have to be run in for a period of time but I will watch for eventual changes and be able to do A/B comparisons with the CDX2 over time since I keep it. If I find something I will report. Another possibility is the way we feel improvements. There is definitively one. But what I may see as not that important is to other listeners. I also remark that most of you guys have the 555PS while I am still at the XPS2 level. It is an 8 years old unit that might have to be serviced. However, my feeling was the same when I listened to the NDS and CDX2 at my dealer's shop.

Michel

Hi Michel

I actually have my Unitiserve in my listening room and I find it to be very quiet when serving which is how it is mostly used.

Also, I don't use a NAS. I have about 350 cds stored in the loft ready for the day the hard drive fails so that I can rerip them once it is repaired.

ATB

Ray

Michel, it is true there is a habit change of playing your CDs by a CD spinner transport or via a streamer... But it is still CD after all. I love the convienience of streaming and ripping using dbpoweramp and if the CD is in the Accurip database it is really really quick and allows me to occasionally tweak the meta data to suit my collection.

Streaming has allowed me far better accessibility to my music and is great for following influences and trends, whether in be in symphonic classical, bluegrass, jazz, rock, pop, electro, hip hop you name it.... I also have to say that my CD purchasing has hugely increased since I got into streaming with WAV PCM using Naim... 

For me it's all about the music... I work with technology and build and design with it every working day ... When I want to listen to my music ... I want to do just that without thinking of operating machines such as cueing records, loading CDs, inserting cassettes, wiring up AppleTVs/iPods... I just want to listen and ingest my music in unfiltered,un- smoothed, un-compressed way.. I don't want these man made artefacts in the way... And streaming my CDs using PCM into a quality audio system such as Naim gets me there..

BTW I also hugely prefer FM radio to the vast majority of web radio. The BBC 3 320kbps AAC stream is getting quite close though... But lossless multicast using your ISPs fibre acess infrastructure if it commercially works will be a game changer.

But on Naim radio the other evening, streaming 320kbps mp3 I am sure I heard encoding artefacts on a cello solo that any way didnt sound right at all and was quite off putting and I switched away.. As that was definitely a barrier between me and the music.

Simon

From ToneAudio's review of nDAC/555PS in June last year:

My experience is the opposite to Michel. I compared CDX2 to ND5XS, HDX and NDS at my dealer and the setup was similar to my own. From NDX level for me it`s no contest. Streamer wins. When NDS was put in it was clear to me immediately, it`s in another league to all the mentioned. I look forward to compare it to CDS3, that`s another special machine in my view.

Summed up (in my view).

I think this is fully up to the listener and what he/ she prioritize. Speed and openness, or scale, dimensional and natural. Both needs should be respected. 

Good luck from S

Stover,

Indeed the NDS is superior. I agree with that. But I found it was only slightly. You felt the difference is large. I won't argue with that. I think that the NDS is an advance in both sound and convenience. Where it clearly wins is in the convenience department.

What I am thinking is that if you don't want to bother with ripping and setting up a streamer,  the CDX2 is a fantastic player for its price. If you are ready, then definitively go for the NDS.

Michel

One thing to remember: The NDS/555 are natural partners. The CDS/XPS-2 were natural partners....

Bonjour Michel,

I find this is a very good question that deserves its own thread, which you can find here.

Thank you for having brought this point up, and for sharing your experience.

Have a sunny Sunday,

Maurice

-Ripping is a pain in the butt. If you don't absolutely need or want it, you may as well stick with your CD player. It is a major burden. Find out exactly how you will do it and set up your pipeline. It takes time and thinking but it is important since you do not want to redo everything.

Agreed, ripping is a major chore but that is because most of us are ripping an entire collection. With a nod to the future, I started ripping a year ago in preparation. The biggest pain are classical and boxed sets - you need to experiment to make sure the post tagging process is minimized and this I can see putting some folks off. So perhaps the Unitiserve is the solution for them. Or as you suggest, stick to CD.

-The CDX2 coupled to an XPS and, eventually, a DAC is a killer CD player. It is very close to an NDS with the same power supply and a lot cheaper if bought second hand. This was a revelation for me

Ditto. I too have been using a CDX2/XPS2 for the last 10 years - It is a phenemonal combination and has kept me sitting on the fence.

-I had a number of copy protected CD that I could not rip. They are read by the CDX2. I do not want to spend time going around the protection scheme. I takes too much time. CD Players work great here.

For the few copy protected CDs I have, I simply needed to re-tag them where necessary. It is ironic that (some) these copy protected CDs can now be purchased and downloaded free of DRM...

-I have no regret buying the NDS since I know I will be able to upgrade it thanks to the 555PS and because I know it is currently one of the best streamer in the world. I love my CDX2. I know it will be the same with the NDS. Don't forget though that the higher sound quality of the NDS versus the CDX is probably not worth the price difference. Ugradibilty (if that word exists) and convenience do.

I have just bought an NDX. I had one on loan for a week with the intention of demo'ing it side-by-side with the CDX2 but decided against it. I should note that it took less than 5 minutes to swap out with the CDX2 and have music streaming in its' place. How could it be any simpler? But for me though I only wanted one source and know the CDX2 would just become a dust collector (I had the same issue with vinyl vs CD.) The question I asked myself was "can I live with this as a replacement for CD?" The answer was yes and as a bonus I can use the XPS2 which I will have upgraded to DR spec in the future. As for the music? Well it is different from the CDX2 - a little cooler and a little more detail so it really is difficult to quantify in terms of quality. I hear it as being equal but with a difference in presentation.

Finally, I now can access all those lovely streaming services through the NDX which I have been missing for many years. Now I have a fantastic device for not only playing back music but also discovering much more...

Congratulations on the NDS and maybe after using it for a while you may find yourself trading the CDX2 in for a 555ps???

-tim

Tim,

I fully agree with you. The plans for my NDS are to upgrade it with a 555PS in the future. Maybe next year, maybe before. I have other upgrades in mind (Supercap, 252...) but the 555PS is probably a priority because it will bring the NDS to where it is supposed to be (no; there won't be a second 555PS). This may have gone unnoticed in my initial post but I have ordered a pair of Proac K6 which should be a very significant improvement over my Triangle Australe. They should arrive sometime in July. I will have to digest that purchase before upgrading again.

Until I have ripped the CD collection, I will keep the CDX2 and decide whether or not I convert it to the CDX2.2 spec and use it as a transport to go into the NDS. I expect it to be in the CDS3 range then. Will see but I am curious.

Michel

Hi Michel,

A few years ago when my audio dealer called me to say he had a lightly used NDX for sale I resisted at first.  In order to finance the deal I would have to trade in my beloved CDX2 so I really had to jump into streaming with both feet.  In the end he persuaded me that it was the way to go and I'm very glad he did.

It's quite true that the thought of ripping my entire cd collection (over 2000 discs) was daunting, particularly for someone with my limited abilities with computers, and I took some time to research the whole process as I really didn't want to get half way through only to realize; "Oh no! I should have done it that way!"  Once I got started it was not too bad though, and the payoff was huge.  I think you will find that once you start to play your music this way you'll quickly agree that the labour involved in the ripping process is nothing compared to the labour saved in future years of mucking about with CDs - digging them out of the collection, putting them in the player, refiling them etc. etc.  And then there's the luxury of having your entire CD collection at your fingertips.  I am willing to bet that once you get to that point you will wonder why you ever thought of hanging on to the cd player.

A short while ago I traded in the NDX/XPS2 for an NDS/555dr and audio nirvana is here .  Much as I loved my CDX2, it is a long way from the NDS/555dr IMHO and I can't see any advantage in converting the CDX2 to use it as a transport for the NDS.  So my advice, for what it's worth, would be to trade in the CDX2 and the XPS for a 555dr.  I'm sure you won't regret it.

Michael

Michael,

Thanks for the suggestion. If I find out that I don't use the CDX2 anymore, I will probably do as you suggest i.e. convert the CDX2/XP2 into a 555PS. I will then be freed from the any further upgrade .

Michel