Refurbishing kitchen - induction hob concerns

Seems expensive. I would have thought you get that for much less in the large hypermarkets? How about 1kg of rice and red split lentils? Perfect source of carbohydrates and proteins, feeds a whole family for two days and tastes lovely... The point I am getting at, surely with a bit of creativity you can cook healthier food for about the same money?

But point taken, money probably does play some role, although I am not convinced it's the sole reason...

Nothing of course, just like microwaved food, it's all very good and healthy. Or at least that's what the manufacturers are telling us. And who are we to trust, if not the manufactures' unbiased assessment...

Enjoy your food. 

Cheerio!!

I will. And I won't spend any time stressing about bogeymen trying to kill me with evil microwaves. Enjoy your tinfoil hat. Does it get hot in the summer?

Ignorance is bliss, ey? I see you are a blissful man winky. Putting your head in the sand doesn't make it night time though, you know...

Doh!!

You don't REALLY think that food cooked on an induction hob, or in a microwave is rendered unsafe, do you? What about irradiated food? Do you avoid that, too?

Have you even read my post on page one of this thread summarising the findings of the study? Or have you just picked up on the headline and are arguing for arguments sake?

Let me ask you this, why is it that people seem to have such unwavering faith in everything that is new technology but are having such difficulties to at least consider that it just may have negative effects? Same goes for genetically modified foods and cloned life stock. I know this may not be an issue for you guys over in NA, blimey it's all you are being fed by the mainstream agricultural industry over there. But I tell you this, the vast majority of people here in Germany, and I would argue probably also in Europe, do not want genetically modified crops to be planted here, let alone eat it. They don't want to eat meat from cloned animals, they don't want chloride disinfected poultry meat on the shelves of local supermarkets. Now, this may be standard and common in North America but it sure isn't over here. And unlike over in NA, where the large agricultural lobby has been able to push legislation against these types of foods being clearly labeled, here in Europe it has to be written onto the packaging, if it contains GMO traces for example. Complete GMO foods are not allowed to be imported into the EU. Now you might say: "You don't REALLY think that this food is harmful, do you? Call me a looney, but yes I do. And so do millions of other people here in Europe and thank God they do!!!

Like I said before everyone has to make up their own mind. By the looks of it I am not going to change yours, nor do I want to. 

What strikes me though, is that as soon as you put information on the forum that goes against the mainstream perception, sure enough the first members will come out and ridicule it, calling you a scaremonger or bogeyman, without giving it any considerable thought, often times without even reading the entire thread but just picking up on the last post. 

Like I said, enjoy your food.

Cheerio!

PS. And no, I don't want to eat irradiated food. I am buying organic food, that's all I am putting into my system.... 

So here are the options:

1) Your google-fu has turned up insight that is valuable and helps protect you from harm. The national agencies entrusted with this sort of thing such as the US Food and Drug Adiministration are incompetent and don't have your google skills, nor do they read and consider peer-reviewed scientific papers on food safety studies. Or they know the truth, but are corrupt and on the take from the manufacturers of microwaves and induction hobs etc. The European Food Safety Authority is of course completely complicit in this conspiracy.

2) You have turned up a couple of outlier studies, promoted in the google world by conspiracy theorists. On this you base your views. Your concerns are actually unfounded.

My guess is that it 2) is the more likely.

(And I have read the whole thread)

Here comes the killer argument "conspiracy theory", that surely discredits every point made so far, valid or not. Fortunately life isn't that simple.

What I have done is share information that I came across years ago. Following my telephone conversation with Dr. Hertel, he actually sent me further information in German regarding the findings of his study. Yes, I did use Google to source a summary of his findings in English and pasted it here to save time, so I didn't have to translate it and write it all up. What I pasted covers the main points.

Like I said before nobody here on the forum is in a position to prove it one way or the other. You certainly aren't, nor am I. All you are doing though is providing simple refutes to complex questions. Worse you are ridiculing without knowing. In contrast to you I do think it is good for people to be aware that there may well be serious health issues attached to both microwaved food and induction cooking. That was my sole aim, to raise awareness by sharing information. What people do with this information is up to them, they can either choose to take it seriously and act accordingly, research it further, if they want to or dismiss it outright. All are fine with me. I have made up my mind a long time ago. 

In contrast to you I also believe it serves us well to be inquisitive and don't just take all information that's provided by mainstream media, the government or the FDA for that matter at face value. You seem to think that just because there this this agency called the FDA they will look after your health and everything they approve is safe and by that logic, should there be anything that's not safe, the FDA will surely ban it to protect the public. Unfortunately that's not the case. Or why is that there are so many examples of drugs, which had been approved by the FDA but needed to be taken off the market because their side effects became known only after they had been in circulation and consumed for many years? In the worst cases these side affects resulted in physical deformities of new born babies or death of patients. I think it is clear that the FDA is not infallible. 

The long term effects of eating microwaved food and possibly also food prepared through induction cooking on the human body are simply not know, nor have they been researched properly at all. The study I quoted is the only one I am aware of that looks at this issue in some form. Maybe there are others, I don't know. In my view it is fair to say that the study raises concerns but to prove it conclusively more research would be needed.

Anyways that's all I have got to say on this topic. I never intended to have a long argument about it, I simply put it up here for people to read and draw their own conclusions.

I'm not ridiculing you. I'm just saying I don't care. Whilst the authorities entrusted with food safety are indeed fallible, the potential significance of health issues that may be associated with extremely common appliances like microwaves leads me to believe that this one won't slip through under their radar. Yeah, they could have it wrong, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Like I said in my first post - probably bigger things to worry about. I have drawn no conclusion, I don't know whether microwave ovens are safe or not.  I simply don't care.

At the indian grocery store, probably a $2 for a Kg of rice, and $5 for a kg of lentils. These will keep you filled for many weeks. You can actually get organic/Bio rice and lentils for about as much or a little more in the coop. Guess what, Poor areas don't have access to these stores. Double whammy.

Let me propose something radical. Only one parent in any family should be allowed to work. Rather, make it financially infeasible for both parents in a family to work. One becomes a stay at home mom/dad. Now, you have time to cook your family healthy meals.

The labor market also becomes much smaller. With a reduction in cheap labor, salaries should inch high enough that folks can afford to one person stay at home.

With folks not needing to quickly microwave a dinner you won't need the microwave anymore.

In germany, this already happens - I remember Steuer Karte 1 and 6, with the taxes so high in 6, it's almost not worth working anymore, especially if one salary is much bigger than the other. Also, when kids are younger, the social system allows for the mom to stay at home and get a large % of her salary.

It's not just one thing, it's the system that's messed up in the USA, and then they blame it on lazy people..

You should try to watch Food Inc. if you get a chance - should be available on youtube...

Michael Pollan's new book Cooked is also a very interesting read...

If you want to learn more about america food politics you should try reading An omnivore's dilemma.

And factory farming is as much an issue in Europe as it is in the US.

So married childless couples can each develop separate careers but not those with kids. Two married people with jobs have to decide who quits when they reproduce. Single people can do what they wish of course.

Maybe when kids leave home they can go back to both working, if they have retained any skills of course.

Surely the most bizarre (and actually regressive) suggestion for social policy I have ever read here or anywhere else.

I'd always thought that analism referred to erotic activity focusing on the anus, which some say is pleasurable due to the abundance of nerve endings, where others say it's due to the taboo nature of that part of the anatomy, but I may be getting off topic. If you mean pedantic, yes, guilty as charged.

Butt yes, to the bigger picture. After a bit of soul searching over the weekend, I asked myself  "What in the world am I doing trying to convince someone I've never met, over in Germany, on an internet audio forum, in a dark place called the padded cell, that all may not be as clear as one illuminated and unpublished pseudoscientist would lead you to believe." 

You see TP, I'm trained to evaluate health risks and to make sure that the response to the risk is appropriate. It's what I do. My mistake is in extending this to the internet. I'm missing my chalkboard, the classroom setting, the visual contact and the opportunity to set assignments. If we'd met by chance in Germany - who knows, maybe that medieval restaurant in Celle - maybe we would have got to talk about music, then probably Naim, but probably not microwaved food.

These exchanges can only develop into a battle of attrition, so I'm out.

Take care,

Jan

He He. You're absolutely right.

Remember though, careers aren't everything. A lot of people don't have the luxury of not working but would quit to spend more time with their young families if they only could. Women (I tried to be pc when I said one partner, but who am I kidding) get doubly exploited - now they're working as well as taking care of the home.  

I'm certain as children where both parents were working, kids would rather have less and have 100% attention of their one parent, then being dropped off at day care when they are 2 months old.

On the other hand, something similar exists in Germany and the idea isnt as radical as it sounds.

The Steuer Karte 1 vs. 6 concept I referred to: 1 has low taxes, 6 has the most.  Most couples will use No. 3 and 4. to get similarily taxed. Where you would go for 1 and 6, it almost makes no sense for you to work if you're being taxed at the 6 rate.

Perhaps explaining to a certain degree why more and more  people choose not to get married or not to have children.

I'll let TP chime in some - as someone living in Germany he probably hates this system.. but maybe not.

Positives and negatives to everything..

I understand the principle you are proposing but I don't see how that helps families. Modern family life is fluid, many children do not have two birth parents on-site for their childhood, they often move through stages of single parent care or indeed new step-parents. I don't think the clock will be turned back on that.

Your suggestion of effectively closing employment to one parent would have some merit if the nuclear birth family stayed together, but if the family splits you would end up with one parent de-skilled and unemployed sudenly needing to re-enter work, and then maybe starting a new relationship and having to leave again.

I'm not sure evidence supports the suggestion that early entry into childcare is detrimental to future social development for chiildren. I might personally prefer a child to be brought up by two parents with active engagement in work and fulfilling careers perhaps. Your suggestion that work should be restricted to one parent is surely also discriminatory against women who will realistically be forced by that policy into being the majority of the home parents. Not a lesson I'd want their children to have.

I have no idea how we got here from induction hobs!

Bruce