Just not feeling the love :: NDX

First, I found our use of language in the hi fi world fascinating.  I take it that the above part of your review is negative, but I have no basis for knowing what you mean.  I have never been able to get into the minds of musicians and vocalists whilst listening to recordings they made months, years or decades earlier   But surely there is something you do not like, and I accept that!

Have you tried the NDX via its SPDIF output with that same DC1 into your SN?  That's where I'd start.  Isolate which part of the 'circuit' might be letting you down.  Then go from there . . .

(I will refrain from the easy part, telling you that you must get a power supply for the NDS, or the Naim Dac, etc etc.  That's not the answer at least up front.  I think that you should determine whether it's the dac in the NDX vs. the dac in the SN that you hear, the interconnects, the player (which you'll have isolated from the dac in the NDX by doing the above), etc.)

Since it is ex-dem, I would invite your dealer over for a listen -- a second set of eyes and ears can't hurt. A properly working NDX should have no problem beating a Sonos feeding a SN's internal dac.

Just a thought -- does the floating/chassis switch make any difference?

Good luck in resolving this!

Hook

Presumably it didn't sound in the least bit flat and lifeless when you auditioned it, so it is logical that something in your system may need attending to. It could be just moving the speakers a fraction. Difficult to say. As said above, since it is dealer supplied you will have good support.

We auditioned the NDX when it first came out and it sounded rubbish, flat and grey, as you describe. The dealer agreed and it turned out to be faulty. Jason rushed a new one to Bath and it sounded wonderful. Definitely worth checking with Signals.

Keith

Thanks Bart. That's a good idea. I'll try it and report back.

Cheers Hook, unfortunately Signals is the other side of the country from me so little chance of a visit.

I will definitely try the chassis switch though.

Ah, now that's where I committed the ultimate sin. I couldn't audition the NDX in the context of my system. I've heard it elsewhere, but as everyone always points out it's different in your own room.

I doubt if it's faulty being an ex-dem unit as the dealer will have used it on many occasion to persuade potential buyers in to parting with their cash. That wouldn't happen if it wasn't up to par.

I've not gone down the UServe route as I already have all the other bits of the puzzle in place. The idea for me is to have as few boxes as I reasonable can to the extent of not wanting a PS for the NDX either.

Thanks for all your tips. I will persevere.

This seems very odd. The NDX should sound excellent. Since it ran in fully and I have stopped toying with Vinyl, I've had nothing but admiration for mine into a 122/150 then 202/150. It's a great machine. Best of luck getting it sorted!

Cheers goat, that's encouraging to know.

I understand the comment about the limitations of the SN in the context of all the great Naim kit, but surely a £3k streamer shouldn't sound bad* in to a £4k amp!!

* well, not bad exactly, but certainly not great.

Erm.... Daft question maybe, but what files are you playing.... Decent quality flac etc, or 320kbs mp3 kinda stuff?

Hi there, its sad you are not satisfied with your new black box. Having also Supernait and using its dac, i would be very interested to know how DC1 on your Sonos improved music, and was it worthwile purchase, as DC1 cost about the same as Sonos itself? I like SN dac's sound alot, although i feel im not getting max from it right now (i not have hicap or powerline yet).

I haven't owned a SN but I've heard plenty of them. I would personally classify it as an excellent partner for an NDX. I would very much doubt if a problem lays there. Going into broken record mode - it may very well be something that a small degree of room tuning can overcome. Nothing changes in isolation. A new box on the rack will affect everything downstream of it including the room.

Is it not that its just a different sound from a different brand and you think because of the price it "should" be better than the lesser sonos?

Uncompressed 16/44 FLAC ripped from CD mainly, with a sprinkling of 24/96 and 24/192 downloads.

Hi Andrius, I'm not sure I can help there. You see I tend to upgrade in chunks rather than bit by bit, so when I bought the SN I also bought a HC2, 2 PL's, the DC1 and fraim all in one go.

I've done the same here by buying another level of fraim, a PL and a HL, all at the same time as the NDX.

All I can say is that the DC1 sounds fine to me. Sorry I'm not much help.

That's a good point Harry. I've tried to dress the cables as best I can, but it's a pretty short rack at only three levels. The stacking order is:

NDX

SN

ZP90 / HC2 (with the hi-cap off to the right hand side)

Nothing in the room has changed other than the NDX additions.

A fair point Robert, the NDX has brought more transparency than the Sonos, but at the same time has lost all the energy and emotion of the performance.

I understand that there is a settling in period and I have to "re-tune" my ears, but at the moment the music is a bit "ho-hum".

I am sorry to hear your story.. Let me try and give some words of encouragement. I use 282/Hicap2/200 amplification. I have been listening to my NDX into my NDAC/555PS for a long while now. This last weekend I tried to play the NDX direct (I haven't done that for 2 years and definitely not with the 282/200) I was really, really impressed. Yes it didn't have grab you sound of the NDAC, and it was quite as bass tight as the NDAC, and treble refinement and extension wasn't quite the same... But it was exceptionally good, and enjoyable with quite a bounce and bass weight with good stereo field. It's like my music was passed through a 'niceness' filter. I have now left my NDXstandalone for the time being.. I also use Powerline into NDX on full fat Fraim, but regular Lavander lead.

So things to check/try

A) use a screened Ethernet lead, and ideally put a ferrite choke around the lead.

B) try and put some distance between the NDX and the switch, or use the longest Ethernet lead you have and coil it up.

C) ensure the SPDIF output is disabled in the setup (if you are using the NDX DAC)

D) ensure audio out is set to DIN only.

E) correctly set the ground switch. ( I set mine grounded)

F) have the display switch off after a short delay.

G) play WAV instead of FLAC ( get upnp to dynamically transcode) I find FLAC sounds flat directly into NDX

If despite all this and it still sounds flat I really think you might have bad'un or a faulty NDX.

Simon

The DAC in the NDX should be better than in the Supernait. I'd just do NDX/Supernait. Add a HiCap to the mix will bring huge benefits.

Just leave the system on for a week and let it settle in. This system was a lot more fun than the SuperUniti to my ears.

If you want more bounce in your music, sell both units and get a ND5XS/Nait 5i-2. That was the best sounding, most fun system that I've ever heard. Fatiguing though, like a night of hard partying.

The 5i-2 might not be able to drive your speakers ....

Sounds like you, your NDX and your Sonos need to take a trip to Signals.  Let them listen to see if they think it sounds broken.  Knowing that one way or the other will be a weight off your mind and you can focus on deciding the next step.  (I know it's a long way, but you need to clear the nagging doubt that there's something wrong)

Gavin, very sound advice...

Can you explain more bounce a Little more detailed?

Hi Allen, perhaps there is large NDX sample to sample variation. I definitely prefer the sound of the NDX on its own as opposed to under another PSU (specifically 555PS). It just sounds right, organic, warm and has a lovely bounce on its own. Yes the dynamics and frequency extremes are slightly constrained but that IMO really plays to the NDX's musical strengths. This is my expierience with 'my early production run NDX' with upgraded streamer board running 3.17 feeding into a 282/Hicap2.

Simon

Well, it's just a lot more fun to listen to - doesn't have the hifi attributes, but is very enjoyable. Sorry, hard to explain...

Thanks for your words of wisdom Simon.

A) I'll look in to this. Regarding the choke, which end of the cable or both?

B) My house is fully wired with CAT6, so all non hifi equipment is in a dedicated room over 10m away.

C) Already done.

D) Already done.

E) Have tried both and cannot discern any difference.

F) I've set it to 10 seconds, but the NDX seems to take this as a suggestion rather than a rule, in that the display switches off anywhere from 1 second to 10 seconds.

G) I have been using Asset but with all sorts of problems, e.g. artwork doesn't display in nStream; FLAC files result in a 'Can't Play' on the NDX, but transcoded FLAC is fine (but no better sounding). 

Last night the NDX suddenly refused to play more than a fraction of a second of any track I queued and then stop - no error message, just 'Stopped'. So I restarted Asset, re-scanned the library, but to no avail. Resorted to switching the NDX off for 15 seconds and then back on again. Works now. Grrr. PS. Display switch off now seems to take 10 seconds.

nStream still not showing all artwork from Asset - this seems completely random. Some covers show, some don't. I've looked at the pixel dimensions of the Folder.jpg file in an effort to determine a pattern and resized files accordingly. Still not showing.

Frustrated with Asset I removed it and tried a free version of JRiver. Now all artwork is showing (yay!) and all tracks playing nicely. Even sounds marginally better to my ears but cannot fathom why at this stage.

Played JL's 'Imagine' and SWMBO remarked that it was the best she has heard yet, so must be on the right track (forgive the pun).

Definitely not what I want to hear Allen  I prefer Simon's advice to leave it bare 

I've yet to try the dig out to SN, but will give it a go this weekend when I have more time to play.