Unitiqute with Mac and EyeConnect

Just a quick reply as off to work - I found EyeConnect flaky and so use Majestic (free) instead. It is a little basic but I'm sure it will improve with new updates. My setup up is similar to your's but wireless.

Regards

Neil

At two feet you could save a lot of hassle and just used a SPDIF cable.

Otherwise a quick test would be to try other UPNP software.

XBMC is a fully media centre so a bit over the top but it does UPNP and its free so worth a quick test.

Welcome to the wonderful world that is UPnP on the Mac. Unbelievably you already have the most stable UPnP software for the Mac and now that you have solved your FireWire issues it should work fine - just don't expect cover art. Gary is right of course, why stream if your kit is so close. Just get an Optichord and use Apple remote 2.



Or reformat the mini and use Vortexbox.



Tog

Scott,

I'm with you on the wired connection - it should work the best.  I would suggest the problem there is with the router. I have a Linksys router as well and will change it sometime in the future. I'm sure there is a post somewhere regarding what routers have been tested by Naim. I'll try and find it.

As for your iTunes and Eyeconnect hopefully I can help there.  I'm assuming by your post you store your music on an external hard drive. Your actual Library files are stored on your Mac (long story but it's a bit messy behind the scene) and should be found via Finder-Places- (your account name) - Music - iTunes - iTunes Library. This last file is as it says your library if this is not called "iTunes Library" or any of the folders are not located and named as listed then that could be your problem with Eyeconnect trying to access your iTunes Library - it was for me.
If the Library file extension is something like "iTunes Library.itl" change it to iTunes Library.

Chris

Scott,

The following link will take you to a troubleshooting guide for the NaimUniti which might be usefull to.

www.naimaudio.com/download

Thanks for all the input.  I have some things to try tonight with EyeConnect and even another uPnP server... 

With regard to the connection from the PC to the 'Qute:  I may be missing something, but it was my understanding that the digital inputs into the 'Qute are bit-stream audio were jitter, etc. are all issues, while the uPnP input stream is based around network file-transfer -- the data from the PC to the 'Qute is in a computer file format which is then converted in the 'Qute to a bit stream and fed into the DAC.  File transfer protocols in the computer network world are designed to deal with collisions, drop out, etc. without errors, so, things such as jitter don't matter with this type of data transfer.  Assuming that my understanding is correct, any resulting jitter, etc. with uPnP streaming would occur in the 'Qute between the file decoder and the DAC where the interface is controlled (and optimized) by Naim -- all with the same power supply/ground/reference voltage, etc.  Is it perfect -- no, but the uPnP stream should offer a lot fewer independently "moving parts" in the chain, and I think that at least on paper, that should yield better sound quality.  Now, can I actually hear these differences in my system?   Room acoustics and suboptimal speaker placement (based on things like furniture in the room ...  ) work to negate many small improvements ... The trade-offs of actually sharing living space with the stereo system are probably good for me in the long run because diminishing returns kick in more quickly and I don't spend all of my money on kit.

(Enough introspective humor for now -- time to get back to work).

Scott.

The trouble is scot for all your long old paragraph there, a straight up connection sounds better.

Try it.

Scott, I think you are right in your logic and a direct connection does not sound better to me.
However, Garyi will also be right in his setup - it will all be dependant on your own environment and how much jitter your choice of cable introduces.

Err Scott, keep it simple mate. Either NAS/Server to Qute or Mac to Qute but remember the sole point is to be able to listen to music.







Tog

Thanks for all the suggestions -- got home too late to fuss too much tonight.

I am going to borrow/buy an optical cable to connect the Mac directly to the 'Qute -- that will let me use iTunes to control music -- I know that works and also allow me to compare the uPnP to the direct-connection.  Now, based on Garyi' s comments I am very curious to see what I can hear in my system.

I am going to try to fuss with the iTunes configuration to try to get EyeConnect to "see" the library on the external and I try out the other uPnP servers that have been recommended.  I would really like to get the uPNP solution working and be able to use the Naim remote and/or the n-Stream application to control the 'Qute and select tunes.  Of course, if/when Naim/Apple can work out some sort of AirPlay solution, I expect that my uPnP problems will magically disappear.

Tog is right... After a while, the bits and bytes just get too crazy and I want to listen to music!  So, until I can get the streamer/server stuff sorted, I have been plugging my iPod into the USB port on the front of the 'Qute... even on a mix of Lossless and lossy tunes, from the iPod, the 'Qute is something special.  The 'Qute is not yet broken it (I know that will take some time), but it is already sounding amazing (The 'Qute is driving a pair of Rega RS3s -- I have liked the speakers, but I didn't realize that they could sound this good)... About 10 years ago, I had a full Naim kit (CDX/XPS/102/HiCap/250)... The 'Qute has the Naim "house" PRaT, but it is also different -- the sound is already richer than I remember -- in a word it is more "meaty"  (beyond "fuller").  The sound stage/imaging is much better than the older Naim kit... I am not sure if I have stumbled on to a really nice synergy or if the 'Qute DAC/amp is a step improvement over the CDX ... I'm not going to try to sort out those details -- just enjoying the tunes.

Cheers.

Scott B.

"I would really like to get the uPNP solution working and be able to use the Naim remote and/or the n-Stream application to control the 'Qute and select tunes.  Of course, if/when Naim/Apple can work out some sort of AirPlay solution, I expect that my uPnP problems will magically disappear."

You will still face the issue of storage pool management from within iTunes, i.e., you will still have situations where Apple-branded software is unable to deal with symbolic links, aliases or explicit paths to folders on larger (i.e., external) storage volumes in an elegant manner–it's still a problem with their pro software (Logic, Final Cut) after nearly a decade, and I don't see this being fixed any time soon.

What this effectively means is that, if you run out of space on your external iTunes volume, you are essentially out of luck. Think about this carefully as you move forward, because you will find this to be a serious Achilles' heel as regards management of a good-sized music library (setting aside all quality issues with iTunes rips, or non-persistence of cover art, in the first place).

AirPlay compatibility would not resolve this issue, and if, in fact, the specification does transcode to 48 kHz/16-bit Apple Lossless for network transmission, you'll gain absolutely nothing over UPnP from a quality perspective (quite the opposite?)....

Storage pool management is, as you'd expect, one area where the Naim servers (e.g., UnitiServe) shine.

Hi,

Could I recommend swapping your router out for another router, although I haven't got any experience of the 'Qute, I have experienced similar problems with plug player and uPnP to my tv. And running a HDX over a WiFi network. What may be happening is the local router is sending the information back to your main router and then this is passed back to the local one. So it may be worth connecting the 'Qute directly to the main router (the DHCP server), and seeing if this is the stops the issue.

Also, are you sure the Mac Mini is using the ethernet port and not WiFi?

I found the following site useful, as you may find another uPnP server more stable in your environment. I personally found PS3 Media server to be quite good.

http://www.rbgrn.net/content/2...ws-mac-os-x-or-linux

good luck,
Rich

Agree with David - Apple have no interest in audiophile streaming at present and with a bit of work UPnP/DLNA should develop nicely. I'm not sure that "storage pool management" is the USP that will justify the price of the UnitiServe SSD, especially as disk sizes increase.

Tog

As people move from hard-disk based storage to SSD, the storage pool issue remains–especially if you are using, say, a MacBook Air, which has limited storage in the first place....

Thanks for all the comments and input.

Status update:  Improvements -- life is looking pretty good right now.

• uPnP is working with the Majestic server on the MAC (Thanks Neil!)  Worked on first attempt -- no problems (haven't checked nStream for album art yet -- maybe, maybe not... but with the music playing, I can sort that over time.
• Switched 'Qute to a fixed IP address... uPnP streaming dropouts disappeared.
• Tried to set up iRadio -- I need to review the manual -- can't figure out if there is a way to download "presets" from the internet site to the 'Qute.
• Experiencing drop-outs streaming the iRado LinnJazz channel (hi-res). I am using an old router as a secondary hub/switch -- I think that it is time to replace the router -- either it is not up to spec or it is starting to fail.  "Normal"/lower-res streaming works without a problem... 

A bit of follow-up to Dave's input (I don't disagree with any of Dave's points -- technically, he is on-point, but iTunes is a 8,000 lb beast that goes way beyond just music and, in terms of market penetration, it is hard to ignore ... )

• Itunes is FAR from perfect -- this is especially true when it comes to music storage... but, until there is an alternative that is just as easy to use for media and iPod management (music, apps and video), Apple (and iTunes) wins.  The iPod user experience is great...  I use my iPod Touch all the time and for so much more than music.
• It looks like the UnitiServe is a great box -- it would have solved my current problems and it provides lots of additional flexibility.  I would like to add one to my kit, but I can't make that type of investment in a dedicated music server (and, across the wider audio community, I don't think that my budgetary constraint is uncommon).  However, I can run music "server" software on a Mac (or PC) in a non-dedicated environment.  Yes, using a non-dedicated system, I am giving up sound quality vs. the dedicated music server, but I gaining so much over using the DAC in the PC or MAC with analog output to the preamp.  More is better, but at least for my budget, the "more" is moving to some form of server coupled with a better DAC than just using what comes in the PC.
• I would be more than willing to buy a reasonably priced Naim uPnP Server software application for my Mac as long as the Naim software could read all the codexes (including all non-DRM iTunes music) and serve up the files to one or two (a limited number) 'Qute-like clients (limiting client connections would be one way for Naim to protect the UnitiServe market position).
• Future product opportunity for Naim:  Naim is a great company with a cult-like following -- the kit is wonderful and built to last... I can't afford to buy the system that I really want, but I have been able to at least get into the Naim sandbox once again with the 'Qute.  Right now, I have several co-workers who are very intrigued with the 'Qute -- some of them are already trying to schedule demo sessions with my 'Qute (once it is fully broken in).  They want better sound than what they can buy at the big-box store.  All of these folks have one thing in common:  they have an iPod with almost all of their music in iTunes... There is a HUGE market opportunity for a 'Qute or even a stripped-down 'Qute-like box that includes a way to directly access the music in those iTunes libraries.  Granted, this is not the traditional Naim market, but ... it is a big market and once folks experience just how much better music can sound (without the white earbuds or computer speakers), some will catch the passion and have the funds to upgrade to more "traditional" systems (with UnitiServers).  Naim has really scored big with the design and timing of the Uniti line.  Right now, the rendering feature and iPod digital-stream input in the 'Qute position it a few years ahead of the rest of market ... read those iTunes libraries and with just a bit of marketing, I don't think that Naim will be able to make these boxes fast enough to keep up with demand.  (Honestly, while there is a huge market potential, I am not sure I want Naim to grow big very fast -- I like the sound, the company focus on the sound, and also the small community -- it is great that Dave and other Naim folk participate in this forum community...  and it is also great to have such a supportive group of mates from all over the world with music and Naim being common threads... ).

[Sorry this got a bit long.]
Cheers and happy listening.

Scott.

Hi Scott
Thanks for your postings, which I have read with interest.
I bought my UnitiQute a couple of months ago and have been wrestling with all of the problems that you have.The 'Qute sits nicely in a Naim system which includes a CD5 for those little silver discs and a Flatcap/150 to give it a bit more clout to drive my beloved SBLs.
I too use a Mac and iTunes for the sheer convenience and although my setup is a little different to yours, the non-streaming of itunes from my library, whilst not a catastrophe, is a blinking irritation. I use an Airport Extreme to connect my 'Qute to the outside world and iRadio has been a revelation -not in pure Hi Fi terms of course, but just giving me so many more stations to dip into including the ubiquitous Radio Paradise which has resulted in my music purchases going up. (She who Must Be Obeyed has pointed out that I had said more new kit would result in less CD purchases - but hey ho).
It does seem a bit odd that Naim and Apple have worked together on an app and Naims little box of magic has wired iPod connectivity but somehow they have apparently failed/decided not to develop a piece of software that will overcome the well documented non-streaming issues.
Your suggestion about a new product opportunity for Naim is a good one - lets just not hold our collective breath!
Meantime, I'll keep fiddling
Simon

Hi Scott

Majestic has a few flaws but I'm sure the developers will sort out the art work and have a better (more iTunes like?) structure of listing the music. iRadio is quite easy to set up. Have another look at how to store/set up the presets and make sure that you set up Radio Paradise streaming @128 AAC via the Naim's vTunes site.

Have fun.

Neil

Neil:

Thanks.  I got iRadio going a few nights ago.  I just needed to read the directions and set up an account on vTunes -- it makes for a pretty sweet set up... I expected the presets to just link to the radio stream, but at least with some of the National Public Radio stations, you can also access an entire library of podcasts/etc -- directly from the 'Qute.  Just the presets would have been great -- the "extras" is really sweet.

You are correct, Majestic is not perfect, but for now, it is serving up iTunes content without major issues.

On a similar note, I just saw a write-up on the new software package called eLyric from the folks at PS Audio...   It appears to be a uPnP server (as well as some other things) -- based on the write-up that I saw, I did not fully understand how/if it handled iTunes content.  It looks like the best way to learn out it will be to give it a try -- it is still in the beta stages, but with the backing of PS Audio, at least there is some thought to sound quality in the software design (which I haven't seen with many of the other computer-based uPnP servers).

'Qute is still breaking in...   It is definitely different than my old "olive" system -- same/similar PRaT, but the sound stage/imaging appears to be better... Something is definitely different (is there a thread somewhere that discusses the evolution of the Naim amp/preamp (specifically over the last 10-years?) ).

Scott B.

Importing library into eLyric now Scott. Will play during the day.

Thanks for the heads up.

Neil

NO transcoding yet!!! ALAC, and so most of my library, not available. Need to get a HiFace as the Mini is just under the Qute and see how that compares to the optical link.

eLyric looks promising though but Majestic works for the moment....

This is an interesting thread. Now, as storage pool management is an issue with iTunes what are the possible solutions apart from using the Unitiserve? Thanks very much!

Well Majestic ticks many of the boxes for me and appears to be a darned sight better at streaming that Allegro - which I have found to be patchy at best.
Worked straight after downloading and opening the file.
Transcodes everything in my iTunes library with ease and works well with the Naim app on my iPhone.
Just glancing at the iPhone as I type: Format MP3, Bitrate 192kb/s, Samplerate 44.1kHz, Buffer 100% and album artwork faithfully rendered.
Until Naim/Apple get their stuff together, this seems the be the software of choice if you have Lossless iTunes on your Mac and want to stream.
Hey, and its free!!
Go to www.majesticdotapp.com/ 

For now, Majestic on the Mac just works for uPnP streaming of iTunes Apple-lossless libraries.

eLyric looks nice ... and it can stream Apple Lossless -- the problem is that eLyric does not transcode.  So, either eLyric needs to include the ability to transcode on-the-fly, or Naim needs to license/add the ability to play Apple-Lossless to the Uniti line (AirPlay may at least provide a framework of a license agreement) [eLyric has moved the ball down the field a bit -- as a uPnP server, it provides the file (in native codex) -- Naim would not have to interface directly with iTunes, just support the codex).

Storage Pool Management:  Honestly, it isn't an issue for me right now, and I don't expect it to be an issue in the next few years.  Right now, I have a 2TB external drive attached to my Mac Mini that is dedicated to music -- the disk is not even a 1/8-full.  The source of almost all of my music is CDs ripped from my CD collection.  I don't use the bit-torrents or other on-line sources to "acquire" music and I don't buy a lot of music on-line because until recently there has been very little every CD-redbook quality music available.  I am working through my CD collection -- ripping it all to the disk -- I have about 1/2 the collection ripped.  [Looks like eLyric may also have some capabilities in the storage pool management area but I did not explore in depth].

ITunes isn' perfect... it is better than it was 5 years ago... and it will change over the next 5 years (fr better... and, for audiophiles, probably for worse as well)... other computer music technologies will also change.  Right now, I use iTunes because it provides a seamless platform with my iPod.  If/when, there is a better solution to my needs (that I can afford), I will switch.

Neil:  Thanks once again for recommending Majestic!

Scott

Have ordered a 6TB Vortexbox Server to replace my current TogServe (homebrew Vortexbox server). 

Majestic is a reasonable solution for the Mac but Asset is too clunky under Crossover Mac. For me Vortexbox provides  a high quality, cost effective and continuously developed Open Source solution.

Tog

Traded e-mail with the folks at PS Audio about eLyric server:  Transcoding is coming soon to a Mac near you.

The application looks pretty cool... It "feels" like the iPod interface to iTunes (via either the REMOTE app or the native music application on the iPod Touch/iPhone).  And, it looks like it does a reasonable job of handling iTunes and non-iTunes cover art (not sure how it plays with n-Stream).

PS:  Just for grins, I tried to connect to the 'Qute in an internet browser window from the Mac... Nice textured black "splash page" and I can see the 'Qute configuration (but can't change anything)... Any chance that Naim can/will enable control from the browser (would be very nice... would also "enable" use of an Android device for remote control... Even if all functionality, was not available via the web (to protect n-Stream market), it would be nice to be able to sit down at a full keyboard to be able to manage the configuration, presets, etc. 

Scott.