The USB cable is it important?
Posted by: Wotan on 27 January 2011
I do not know if this question has already been done before. I've searched but have not found it. Sorry if so.
I have read different opinions on the subject. Apparently, some DAC are more sensitive than others to the quality of the USB cable (correct me if I'm wrong). Currently I have a cheap USB cable to connect my mac mini to the EVO. I have two questions:
- Can any USB cable can handle files of any sample rate?
- Since I have a Naim DAC, does the usb cable is it important? In this case, what you advise me?
Thanks.
I have read different opinions on the subject. Apparently, some DAC are more sensitive than others to the quality of the USB cable (correct me if I'm wrong). Currently I have a cheap USB cable to connect my mac mini to the EVO. I have two questions:
- Can any USB cable can handle files of any sample rate?
- Since I have a Naim DAC, does the usb cable is it important? In this case, what you advise me?
Thanks.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by 0rangutan
The choice of USB cable shouldn't matter and all should easily cope with any sample rates.
However, for peace of mind, you should be able to pick up a well made USB cable like AudioQuest Forest fairly inexpensively (£20-30). Anything costing more than this is probably a waste of money.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by naimUnT
Like power cables, speaker cables and interconnects, the question whether USB cables make a difference is a very controversial one, with polarities of views for those who say it does make a difference from others who say the cable is merely transmitting 1s and 0s! I think it also depends on the quality of your DAC. The better the quality of the DAC, the greater the DAC's ability to show the audio differences. I tend to agree with Orangutan's view that perhaps a 'middle-of-the-road" attitude is best and USB cables from reputable names like AudioQuest, Chord, etc, would be a safe bet.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by likesmusic
For me it is the other way around; the better your DAC the less it should be intluenced by differences in competent cables. If I had a DAC which was influenced by cables, I'd be looking for another DAC, not another cable!
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by John R.
Based one my tests with an asyncronous USB DAC (Ayre QB 9) I can only recommend a good USB cable. From a technical point of view it should not make a difference, but it does make a difference worth spending some money. A coax digital cable should not make a difference, too, but the DC 1 from Naim sounds soooo much better than the other coax digital cables that I tried.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by DanielP
The Absolute Sound's Alan Taffel recently reviewed the dCS Debussay USB DAC, and made a recommendation about USB cable. I thought I'd pass this along (advice to spend less money is uncommon):
-- Daniel
"USB cables make a demonstrable difference. For my tests with the Debussy, I experimented with five of them, ranging from the Brand X variety that comes with printers to audiophile affairs from Synergistics and Kimber. The winner this round—just as in the last time I conducted a USB cable survey—was the unpretentious Belkin Gold Series. The difference this cable makes is not remotely subtle. Depending on what you are comparing it to, it can be the difference between music and wallpaper. Here, blessedly, in one area of the high end that does not require spending a fortune; I picked up my 6-foot set at Amazon for $4.88."
-- Daniel
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by Aleg
For me it is the other way around; the better your DAC the less it should be intluenced by differences in competent cables. If I had a DAC which was influenced by cables, I'd be looking for another DAC, not another cable!
For me it is the other way around
. If a device isn't able or capable to show the effects of difference in inputsignals than it is a great equalizer, which makes everything sound the same and probably not very sensitive. That means to me, it will also not be very sensitive to display differences you do want to hear in input signals.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by likesmusic
I understand what you are saying, but I could only accept that it might be true in the domain of analogue signals, not digital. One of the important properties of digital transmission is that digital information is massively resistant to interference or degradation.
If USB cables sound different then why not ask the people who designed your DAC what USB cable they use? And why other cables sound different?
Or if you accept that USB cables degrade the signal, give up using USB !
If USB cables sound different then why not ask the people who designed your DAC what USB cable they use? And why other cables sound different?
Or if you accept that USB cables degrade the signal, give up using USB !
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by james n
digital information is massively resistant to interference or degradation.
Quite right. The USB cable galvanically links your DAC and components downstream (depending on design) with the computer its connected to which can give varying results. Get a decent cable for around £50 tops. Audioquest are good in that they take the trouble to improve the isolation of the power wires in the cable which prevents coupling of interference from the power wires coupling into the data lines and making its way downstream.
James
Quite right. The USB cable galvanically links your DAC and components downstream (depending on design) with the computer its connected to which can give varying results. Get a decent cable for around £50 tops. Audioquest are good in that they take the trouble to improve the isolation of the power wires in the cable which prevents coupling of interference from the power wires coupling into the data lines and making its way downstream.
James
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by likesmusic
... but, imo, a decent DAC (like a Benchmark) will have it's USB input galvanically isolated so that it matters not a whit whether your laptop is plugged into a rubbish power supply, or running from it's battery. Other less well sorted DACs can make all sorts of bird-song noises via USB from a laptop running off a power supply - easily heard if you turn the volume to full with no music playing.
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by pcstockton
How does this all come into play with something like the Halide Bridge?
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by james n
but, imo, a decent DAC (like a Benchmark) will have it's USB input galvanically isolated.
You'd hope so.
James
You'd hope so.
James
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by likesmusic
"How does this all come into play with something like the Halide Bridge?"
Turn your volume up to maximum (slowly) with nothing playing, but the USB input selected. Should be utterly silent. Or do the same with something very quiet playing. Poorly isolated DACs can make birdsong-ish warbling like noises. If you unplug the USB lead there should be no noises; if you unplug your laptop from it's power-supply there should be no noises. Even at full volume, but don't try at full volume first!
Turn your volume up to maximum (slowly) with nothing playing, but the USB input selected. Should be utterly silent. Or do the same with something very quiet playing. Poorly isolated DACs can make birdsong-ish warbling like noises. If you unplug the USB lead there should be no noises; if you unplug your laptop from it's power-supply there should be no noises. Even at full volume, but don't try at full volume first!
Posted on: 27 January 2011 by Tog
The Halide is a good quality cable that does considerably more than your average USB.
It is useful in all this to remember that USB was never designed to pamper audiophile ears; it has been adopted out of convenience as a way of liking traditional HiFi and the huge installed base of USB ported computers (significantly fewer have firewire!)
It would be a miracle if bog standard USB sounded as good as a wire someone had bothered to consider as a possible medium for transmitting timing sensitive data into someones precious dac.
The arguments about USB are still raging over on Computer Audiophile (seems like years) and the guys are probably having a whale of a time. Great if you like to watch paint dry.
Buy a reasonably good cable that is proportional to the amount you spend on your kit.
Then concentrate on listening to the music.
Tog
Posted on: 28 January 2011 by Wotan
I would like to hear from Naim their opinion about this. Naim DAC is sensitive to different usb cables?
Posted on: 28 January 2011 by Aleg
quote:I would like to hear from Naim their opinion about this. Naim DAC is sensitive to different usb cables?
You cannot connect your EVO or any other devices (except USBstick) to the nDAC with a USB-cable, so what is the point?
-
aleg
Posted on: 28 January 2011 by Wotan
The USB cable connects my Mac mini with the EVO. Since the DAC takes the signal coming from the EVO, I have thought that, perhaps, some DAC are more sensitive than others depending on the USB cable, but I can be wrong.
IIn any case, I wonder what kind of usb cables used Naim for their test.
IIn any case, I wonder what kind of usb cables used Naim for their test.
Posted on: 28 January 2011 by Aleg
But then it would be the EVO that is or is not sensitive to USB cables, so the question would be more appropriate for the EVO manufacturer than for Naim who only processes what it receives from the EVO.
The Naim DAC it not directly influenced by any cabling connected to the EVO.
I wouldn't expect Naim to do any testing with EVO-like devices but only with devices that use optical or COAXial cables. And than only probably its own devices and not from third parties.
-
aleg
The Naim DAC it not directly influenced by any cabling connected to the EVO.
I wouldn't expect Naim to do any testing with EVO-like devices but only with devices that use optical or COAXial cables. And than only probably its own devices and not from third parties.
-
aleg
Posted on: 28 January 2011 by Wotan
I already asked the manufacturer of the EVO and his response was: "the USB cable is not overly important, I used a cheap 4m USB 2.0 cable".
I understand that with this answer I should already have enough, but I just wanted to know the Naim's world opinion about this.
I understand that with this answer I should already have enough, but I just wanted to know the Naim's world opinion about this.
Posted on: 30 January 2011 by Wotan
I followed the advice of Orangutan and I ordered a AudioQuest Forest. Thanks all for your replies.
Posted on: 30 January 2011 by PureHifi
My previous tests with the Cambridge Audio DacMagic have shown that there is a variation in the cables used (std one that comes with the DacMagic, a range of suitable printer cables, LaCie cables and the Wireworld Ultra Violet and Starlight).
We have just taken delivery of the new Rega DAC and I have not yet had the opportunity to run through the cables again to see if we get similar results.
The best value for money (against the bundled cable) was the LaCie USB cable - very cheap by comparison to the Wireworld offerings. But the clear winner in terms of sound delivery were the wireworld products.
I care not for the "why it works" but have judged everything on merit of sound using fairly modest amps, speakers and analogue cables (Nait5i, 202/200, Totem Mites/allaes, Chord Company Cobra).
I would strongly suggest that it is worth trying a couple of alternatives and make your own judgement call on the results.
Worth noting that the USB specification turns off error detection when streaming audio & video content and the cables that we have experienced delivering superior results are a flat cable design.
We have just taken delivery of the new Rega DAC and I have not yet had the opportunity to run through the cables again to see if we get similar results.
The best value for money (against the bundled cable) was the LaCie USB cable - very cheap by comparison to the Wireworld offerings. But the clear winner in terms of sound delivery were the wireworld products.
I care not for the "why it works" but have judged everything on merit of sound using fairly modest amps, speakers and analogue cables (Nait5i, 202/200, Totem Mites/allaes, Chord Company Cobra).
I would strongly suggest that it is worth trying a couple of alternatives and make your own judgement call on the results.
Worth noting that the USB specification turns off error detection when streaming audio & video content and the cables that we have experienced delivering superior results are a flat cable design.