Which is best ripping format?

AAC is compressed like MP3 and AIFF is not supported by the UnitiQute either. Your options are:

1. Use a different program such as XLD and rip to FLAC, which is supported by the Qute, although FLAC is in its turn not supported by iTunes so you will have to maintain separate libraries.
2. Rip to Apple Lossless and use UPnP software which will transcode it on demand to something the Qute recognises.

I prefer option 2, since I like to use iTunes to organise my music. Everything is Apple Lossless and the program Asset UPnP delivers the music to the Qute, converting it to WAV as it is requested.

Thanks, Ben.  After speaking to Steve at Naim, I have ordered the 1 Terabyte Netgear ReadyNAS Duo.  Like you, I rather like iTunes.  So how would I keep the iTunes format on the NAS and be able to get the UnityQute to read it?

Best format?  Clearly FLAC.

Clearly? 

Shame the search function does not work yet, would have been useful to do a search on the topic.

Having followed the discussion to a degree on the old forum, it seemed most here came to the conclusion that it was WAV, which provided superior SQ, including those who did their testing and comparissons on an all 500 system...

Yes clearly.   It is the most ubiquitous compressed lossless codec BY FAR.
It easily plays on ALL Naim "DA" pieces from the Qute to the Naimnet Servers.
It handles tagging very easily, and just as a little bonus, takes up slightly less space than WAV.

If you want to get all anal about WAVs sounding better, I would suggest an HDX or a Serve, and leave ripping in the hands of the pros.  If one goes this route, codecs are irrelevant (unless you move on to another platform).

If you think WAVs sound better than FLACs, I am guessing the Naim rips will sound better to you than EAC or anything else....  Once again, rendering the codec issue moot.

So...... Unless you DEMAND use of iTunes, FLAC is the best codec to rip to.  Clearly. 

If you dont like it you can easily batch convert to WAV.

+1 for FLAC

Hi Richard, the way you keep iTunes and have the Qute pick up the files is to install some form of UPnP software which is capable of transcoding Apple Lossless to WAV as you play it. A good example is Asset UPnP. Unfortunately there is no way of installing this on the ReadyNAS so in order to use them together you would need to also have a computer on and running the software. Some other NAS's can run it, and these are the ones based on Windows Home Server, such as the HP X510.



If you don't want to have a computer running and you want only to use the ReadyNAS you will need to convert everything to FLAC, in which case you won't be able to use iTunes.



If I were you, I would think carefully about how you want this to work before commiting to a particular NAS, if it's not too late!



Ben

OK.  I have rather a lot of Apple compressed files, which may be in MP3 for all I know, but it shows as 256 KB/s as the bit rate in iTunes.  I am prepared to re-rip everything,  Grrrr... .

So in iTunes which format should I use initially, as Flac is not shown as an option?

In iTunes I have the following options when ripping:

AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless, MP3 and WAV.

Wouldn't it make sense to encode using WAV when ripping?  

If I do use WAV, do I simply copy the iTunes folder directly into the NAS?  Or is there something extra I need to do?

I will do a test in a moment to check that when done with the WAV encoder, it will still play in iTunes on my Apple TV.  I rather suspect that this device will shortly be redundant.

I have already ordered the Netgear ReadyNAS duo.  Not too bothered, as I eventually intend upgrading to the Unityserver.

Thanks for any support.

Hi Richard,

Just in case this isn't clear:

Flac is a lossless compression method - like zip.

Most people here mean for you to rip to WAV, which is the highest quality you can get. You then compress the WAV to flac to reduce the space taken.

In this way you have the highest quality rip, WITHOUT any DRM issues trailing you around like Tiberian bats!

The issue mentioned above, the quality of compressed WAV (flac) vs WAV is interesting.

I have listened to a fully fettled 555 system, and there is NO doubt, the WAV files were better ...BUT.

My main audio amps are EAR, not Naim - which I use for AV.

On my main amps - which I think are brilliant - I can't here any difference between flac and WAV. But then I can't tell much difference between 16/44.1 and HiDef; they all sound great, depending on the mastering!


My heart felt advice would be to use open standards. Apple, SONY et al will all want to tie you into their way of doing things.

M

Thank you.  I think I understand.  

Well, I have ripped to various encode standards for test purposes, including WAV and all play fine on the Apple TV.  

So if I am still understanding properly, If I re-rip all using the WAV encoder, despite the huge file sizes, these could or should be all copied to the NAS - right? Presumably I would copy my iTunes folder en bloc.  I assume doing this will mean I will lose all my Playlists.  That is the real downside for me.  I particularly want to be able to find any track quickly.  I like iTunes and I am very reluctant to lose it for any other player.

Is there any reason why I can't simply keep my Apple TV as an audio server and stream digitally into the UnityQute with WAV files?

I am on a very steep learning curve. I am not the least bit interested in multi-room usage.  I simply want my main system to play streaming audio with the advantage of having a good easy to use GUI, like iTunes.  Eventually, if at all possible, I would like to use an iPad as the remote.

Richard,

If space isn't too much of an issue you could always maintain two libraries, one lossy for iTunes and your portable players and one lossless (FLAC) for streaming to your Qute. That way you can keep your existing rips for your iPod etc and rip using an open industry std (as Mr Underhill points out) i.e. FLAC

One thing worth considering is whether iTunes is appropriate for high quality rips........I don't use a Mac but there may be better ripping programs which produce accurate rips, capable of ripping to two different formats at the same time like dbPoweramp and good tagging support. 

Worth considering?

Richard,



May I ask how soon you intend to upgrade to the UnitiServe? Because when you do you will most likely want to rip everything again regardless of what you do now, so if that's only a short while away you would be best off keeping the Apple TV and using it to stream straight into the Qute, rather than worrying about all of this, as it can get quite complex and will not necessarily be worth the effort if it's only for a short time.



If it's for a longer period, however, and you want to get the best possible quality the simplest way would be to rip to WAV in iTunes. You can move the entire iTunes folder to the NAS. Just hold down Alt when you next open iTunes and choose the new location of the library so it opens correctly.



You could achieve better results, with slightly more effort, by abandoning iTunes and ripping with XLD, a free program for the Mac, but it is debatable whether it is worth the trade-off in convenience.



Ben

Hello, Richard.  I am auditioning the UnityQute alone and then in combination with the 250 tomorrow.  If I am following the suggestions correctly, it would seem easiest to just do as you suggest, copy my library onto the NAS.  

If I do this, will it still appear as iTunes?  And if so, how do I control the NAS?

Do I use Naim's own App Store Remote in conjunction with the UQ.

Obviously, I will keep the Apple TV until I am satisfied with whatever succeeds it.  Eventually I expect I will invest in the UnityServer and keep the NAS for backup.  Or I could replace the Apple TV with the Mac Mini or the Mac Mini Server version.

Since the beginning of January, Apple Stores will setup your system including any apps required, in store immediately after purchase. This could be advantageous to people like me, who have very limited knowledge of all this darned modern technology.

You may not find that iTunes can handle tagging well on the rips to WAV.  You might be doing a lot of tagging by hand when you move things to a NAS.

I would simply avoid iTunes for ripping.

Use XLD and rip to FLAC or WAV (assuming you can tag the WAVs in a way that other programs can read them).

Hi Richard,

I think it is worth playing with all the methods you can, within the time you are prepared to invest.

I initially ripped all my CDs/DVD-As to a laptop on which I installed a minimal build of Windows XP, and played the files out through a M2Tech HiFace USB->spdif adapter. I was very happy with this.

Over Christmas I set up an Ubuntu server, and loaded up Asset upnp server. I then streamed the audio files to the laptop.

I also set up a share on the server, and connected to the same files, playing back with foobar in both cases.

I was surprised - upnp sounded best, and better than the LOCAL file.

Whether you keep the files local, move them to a remote location, stream them etc - may all have an effect within your setup on your hardware.

And there is SO MUCH to learn. I think it is great, and can be played with at no great expense.



What I like about the DLNA/upnp server route is that in due course I should be able to transcode the same files, i.e.

I have my flaced WAV files. These will stream to: all the PCs in the house; to my Music Laptop; to my 2nd system's Sony S-370; and, to my Oppo 83, for playback via my Naim DAC.

dbPoweramps Asset upnp server is able to change the flacs on the fly to MP3, for playback on my 2nd system's Sony S-370; which my wife uses during the day, and which can't handle PCM.

Meaning I no longer have to convert them to MP3.

--I'm using tvMobili for photo/video duties - it will hopefully do the video transcoding I need as well.

I think that these are exciting times where the promise of the past 15 years are starting to be realised.

M

FLAC = WAV = AIFF They contain the same information, packaged differently. (so I guess not exactly = )
You shouldn't really hear any difference.
AIFF compatible with iTunes, tagging, art etc, and iTunes is a great program for organising music.
I have two libraries - one in aiff on a NAS share (ripped using Max) serving my Sonos ZP90 into an nDAC, and another in 192 aac for my iPod to use in the car.

John

This is one of the classic forum "shoot em up" questions that can polarise and drive threads for months - you may also wish to try the equally innocent sounding "Do .......... cables ( insert type as appropriate) matter ?" or the equally inoffensive "Is the nDac any good?"



Flac, aiff, alac and wav are all equally appropriate codecs/containers for use in high quality equipment. Which one you choose is down to personal taste and the software platforms you use to serve up your music. If you can hear a difference, pick the one you like the best and be happy.



Tog

To be very clear. 

If you are going to direct hook up say an appletv then you can use any format you like including apple lossless.

If the ATV is within distance and even better you have an ipod then in essence you have a great little system, use the pod to choose music it plays out of the ATV every one is happy.

No doubt the nas you have ordered will talk to itunes so you can store your music on it.

If you are using the UPNP function of the qute, i.e. the apple tv will in no way be connected to it then yes, wav or flac are your choices.

A quick reply to all, I hope.  Firstly, thank you for the many helpful suggestions.

I am now going to rip one CD (an analog mastered from the 80's) in each of the different formats, copy each to its own playlist, entitled Test MP3, Test WAV, etc.  Sync to the Apple TV.  Take the Apple TV down to Mike Manning in Yeovil, Somerset.   If anybody reading this is free from around Noon onwards and wishes to listen, they are welcome.  

I am almost 100% definitely going to buy the 250.  This is for sentimental reasons and is non-negotiable .   Likewise the Qute.   

The main concern for me is the GUI I will need if I abandon iTunes.  I suspect it will mean not only re-ripping everything (), but also re-building and sorting my playlists. I have at present 39 carefully set up playlists.  It has taken literally years to get this far.  So it is easy to understand my reluctance to abandon iTunes.  I am constantly fine tuning them.  Adding or dropping items.  

I will report back (if I am still awake/alive) this evening.

Thanks once again everybody for your immense help.

In my view the key criteria are



1) lossless, ie no loss of information

2) ability to include meta data with the file

3) is used industrially as well as in consumer land



FLAC fits these criteria nicely



Simon

As stated richard plug the Apple tv in, you then retain all the itunes goodness you have done.

Thanks guys for the help.  Well the big surprise is that all formats played flawlessly through the Qute, including Apple Lossless!  No idea how or why, but despite Naim telling me the Qute does not support Apple Lossless, except when an iPod is plugged in, well, it does support it.   

I intend ordering the 250, the UnityQute and probably the WireWorld optical lead.  I only have optical digital out on the Apple.  I will therefore keep the Apple until its hard drive dies and then replace with the Mac Mini.  

I called into the Apple Store on my return and discovered from one of the assistants that there is a little app called iTeleport which can be used on the iPhone or the iPad to "see" your desktop from anywhere.  As this is more comprehensive than the basic Apple Remote, which is dedicated to iTunes.  It is no use for the Apple TV, but sounds excellent for the Mac Mini.

But the good news (from my point of view) is the Qute definitely plays Apple Lossless from my Apple TV.

"In my view the key criteria are

1) lossless, ie no loss of information
2) ability to include meta data with the file
3) is used industrially as well as in consumer land

FLAC fits these criteria nicely"

SInce when is FLAC used "industrially"? Nearly every pro application I know of uses BWF (broadcast WAV), specifically as it is possible to partially recover data from a corrupted file (including one missing its file header), which is DEFINITELY not the case with FLAC.

There is some groundswell for BWF/RF64 as an uncompressed delivery format for hi-res archiving, though it'll be a few years before this really starts to take off. Until then, the WAV family of file formats remains the lingua franca of compatibility (and I'm a Mac guy, by the way).