Tagging Naim Label Downloads

Are you sure media monkey has not created to sets of tags? 

I have been using Mp3tag which is very good, although it says MP3 it does flacs and all sorts.

Hi,

I don't know how media monkey works, but my assumption is that it just adds the tags directly into the WAV files and doesn't try to update the HDX's internal music database directly. The following is based on my observation of behavior in my own HDX using albums  downloaded from Naim and other high def rips from Linn, HDtracks, etc.

The HDX's music database is usually built from a lookup to the AMG online database.

When the HDX rips an album and successfully performs this lookup in the AMG database, it writes the metadata to an amginfo.xml file in the albums folder and it is this that drives the music database. (The HDX rip also generates a cddbinfo.txt, that is used when the AMG lookup fails) 

Naim downloads I have bought in the past have an amginfo.xml file included when you download the album (there is also a second file cddbinfo.txt as mentioned earlier). So I assume the HDX is using one of these files to read the metadata from and ignoring the tags in the your WAV file. I didn't actually realize that the HDX could read the tags in WAV files but I have noticed the same behavior when it reads files downloaded from Naim in FLAC format. Anyway, you could try removing the above 2 files from the folder on the Network Share and re-scanning the share. You will, however, loose the rich metadata that is in the amginfo.xml and the HDX displays as performers, composers, etc. Make sure you backup these 2 files.

One caveat is that you should only do this on a Network Share and not on a Music Store (albums that are directly managed or ripped by the HDX), Naim warn against doing this and that it could corrupt the music database.

Hope this helps,

Rich

Many thanks for this answer.  I'll have to experiment but it sounds logical.

As you say, Media Monkey just adds very basic tags (album name, artist name and album art) to wav files, which HDX reads.

Obviously what I'd really like to achieve is all the metadata in the xml file plus the ability to re-name the artist as Haden, Charlie rather than Charlie Haden.  Maybe it's not achieveable and I can only have one thing or the other.

One thought.  If I put the download into the music store rather than a network share (where it now resides), would I be able to use desktop client to change the artist name, the way you can with a CD that has been ripped by the HDX?  I know you're not supposed to fiddle around with the music store (and I don't) but if a Naim download mimics an HDX rip to such an extent there may not be a problem with putting it into the music store or even setting that as the destination folder when dowloading the album in the first place?

Hi,

Unfortunately playing around with a Music Store or adding external content to a Music Store isn't supported, so I don't think that is an option and I think discussing this in the forum would be prohibited.

You could try editing the XML file, remember to keep a copy somewhere Also, do it in a separate Network Share containing just that album, so the scanning takes less time while your experimenting.

I don't know which field you have to change in the XML file, as it is quite complex. I've only used the XML file to harvest metadata to tag lossless copies of the HDX WAV files for my iPhone. I haven't tried to use them to control the way the HDX sees the metadata.

Regards,

Rich

It IS possible to rip downloaded files to the music store, if you convert them to cd format and write them onto a disk.  I have a disc that someone gave to me, and the uServe was pretty happy to rip it.  I just had to go in and edit the metadata manually using the DTC.

Of course - the obvious solution unless you have to work it out yourself.  Many thanks.

Hang on though - won't converting to a CD defeat the whole purpose of a hi def download?  It will necessarily reduce it to CD quality won't it? 

I'm pretty sure putting a hi-def album on a CD breaks the White Book standard. It will also likely to contain more information than a CD could hold. Although you may be able to rip the WAV files to a DVD Rom and the HDX software may be able to read it, but I suspect it would not be able to match it to the normal CD on CDDB, so the metadata lookup might fail.

I just had a little play with a hi-def album from Naim on my HDX, it was in FLAC format and not WAV, but changing the tag on the artist was picked up in the artists field in the HDX, however, the performer and composer fields came from the amginfo.xml file. 

I don't have a tagging tool that will tag WAV files, so couldn't test a WAV file, (I'm still not sure the HDX picks up the WAV metadata) but have you tried removing the Network Share and then re-adding it. I sometimes find that just refreshing the Share does not pickup changes to files on my Network Shares immediately.

OK all sorted.  I had a message from Naim Label to say they had tagged the file using dBpoweramp.  All else having failed I was able to download a trial version of dBpoweramp and use it to edit the "artist name" tag.  Strange that this seemed to be the only thing that worked - I have always without fail been able to use MediaMonkey, even with other Naim downloads. 

Whoops sorry...I wasn't thinking hi def which of course those downloads are.  Well my system works for std rez files . . . carry on!