Devialet 170: comparison to Naim

Thanks.  I didn't know "powerline" was a product from Naim

Lessloss promote "skin filtering" not sure I like the sound of that

All,  I did promise a slightly more comprehensive review of Devialet vs. Naim few days ago.  Here it is.

But before I talk about my review, it's critical to set the benchmark.  I do own a Naim Uniti.  So that's the extent of my "Naim" experience.  Having read all the previous reviews I understand that everyone have higher models and usually separates of Naim.  So I'm not sure it's apple-to-apple comparison.  Mine seems to be more entry level compared to 500 or classic series (well it's an understatement - mine is entry level period.)

So with that in mind, I've been listening to vinyl for the last few days.  I find the SQ of devialet much more broad, detailed and make me feel part of the music.  The timber sounds, the basses are more controlled and present.  I remember Naim Uniti as a decent sound but never felt "great" sound.  So hands down I'd prefer Devialet over Uniti.  I've also listened to some digital music (not FLACs, mostly MP3s) and even there the difference is palpable. 

Last night I've tried a vovox power cable which is better than stock cable but only slightly.  Anyone have experience in Vovox?

Which sound you prefer is personal taste. Some prefer the 'cleaner' sound of the Devialet. Some prefer the 'emotion' the uniti2 has. Myself, I like the XS because of it's 'drive' in the beat of the music so it is connected to an ND5XS.

What bothers me about the comparison between Uniti<>Devialet 120 is:

- Standard Wifi on the Uniti

- Standard CD-player ont he Uniti

- 5 to 1 analogue inputs in favour of Uniti

- 5 to 2 digital inputs again in favour of the Uniti

- No need to buy a phono-preamp on the Devialet

- Sub-preouts on  the Naim

Price setting:

- Naim Uniti2: +-3800 euro

- Devialet 110: +- 4999 euro

Given the price difference I would suspect the Devialet to be better. Especially when you take into account you can't play a CD with it and the lesser amount of inputs (if you need them)...

When having a more  'limited' budget Uniti2 is difficult to beat.

If you have the budget of a Devialet 200 you can also put together a set with Naim that is as equally good as it is different...and then we haven't even tried matching different speakers.

Well, that's just my opinion, but now I am back toenjoying Adele Rolling in hte deep!

Why do you need CDS2/XPS?

You can buy cheaper Naim CD5XS or go streaming with NDX and run digital output into Devialet SPDIF. I expect this will take you to a better quality than analogue output of CDS2/XPS, and less boxes.

I have had the CDS2/XPS the last 6 years and it sounds wonderful. Haven't thought of changing the set. I will get a NDX or a different music server later. 

Thank you for your input. I'm not so familiar with the new kit yet.

A CDS is another world, so much better

Indeed. Nice though an onboard DAC may be (until left behind as it always will be) those old fashioned analogue inputs still have much to commend them. Particularly when you find a source component whose presentation strongly appeals regardless of the prevailing technology. They never updated the CDS3 with a digital out. Can't say I'm surprised.

You certainly realise that CDS2 output is digitised inside Devialet and then converted back to analogue as part of amplification chain, don't you ?

CD5XS can run a digital bitstream straight into Devialet and with less information losses than CDS2/XPS.

So you can't have a straight analogue in? That's not good.

Nope -- Devialet is essentially a digital amplifier, albeit based on a new and advanced topology.

In my view this is a DAC with two parallel output high-gain stages crossed-over at low frequency point: one is low-power class A gain stage for mid-high frequencies and the other one is high-power switching D-class stage for low frequencies. This hydride technique allows class A performance for the most of audio range without stressing the power supply and at the same time allows high power grip on low frequencies with almost 99% efficiency of D class amplifier and no high-frequency contamination. The ADC input is complementary -- for those who still source music from turntables, tapes and FM.

I can be wrong of course -- there was no one to answer my questions there.

Anyway, I'm sure the whole thing is a new and neat idea. 

I listened for Devialet at Munich show and I can justify its qualities. But the speaker choice and speaker set up and track selection were so different to my standards that I couldn't forge my opinion. Actually I  preferred the sound of the small Devialet in the first room on the shelf -- to the big installation in a dedicated room, but again the first room was noisy, crowdy and the tracks were not right ...

I wish I have a chance to audition Devialet 800 (dual-mono) in my house and compare it straight against nDAC/555DR/282/HC/250.2 or KDS/552/500.  

But it seems that this experiment is gonna cost like 23,000 euro which I'm reluctant to invest upfront - Catch 22.

There's a white paper on the Devialet site which explains the ADH concept here

The Class A and Class D amplifiers work in parallel. Devialet say -

"A genuine class A amplifier directly connected to the speaker drives the output voltage: as the master, it sets the sound of the whole ADH core. That’s why what we hear is an analog amplifier.

Several class D amplifiers are added in parallel to provide the speaker with the current it requires to sustain the output voltage. They act as slaves to the master class A amplifier, minimizing its workload."

I've mainly listened to the Devialet 200 and was extremely impressed with the detail resolution, transparency and grip on the music so much so that I've ordered one to replace my 282/HC/200.  As a major bonus the box count is reduced from 4 to 1 and if buying new the Devialet is cheaper and in many respects IMHO "better:"  My experiences primarily involved using an NDX/XPS2 as a source.

Whether the top end Devialets are good enough to be a viable alternative to top-end Naim systems I don't know but to be frank you wouldn't really expect them to be as they are a fraction of the price of an NDS/555/552/500...    

I would also add that I again heard again the amazing improvements to loudspeaker performance that Devialet's SAM processing can deliver when attending the Devialet Day on Saturday at Hi-Fi Lounge.  Fairly flabby, middle-of-the road Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers were completely transformed by SAM becoming tight, lively and dynamic and together with the base model Devialet 110 form a system with amazing VFM

I'm a bit suspicious that SAM may have more of an impact on cheaper speakers as they presumably won't have been so intensively engineered as their more expensive bretheren but don't have any actual experience that this is the case.  I hope to find out shortly.

Great to meet a few other Naim Fourm members at Hi-Fi Lounge as well

Hi FT!

it was a pleasure to meet you and fascinating to hear about your quest to find the perfect speaker.  I would be very interested to hear about your view when it finally arrives - in September?

My Devialet is now at Paul's and I hope to pick it up tomorrow. It will probably take a few days to settle in but I will let you know how I get on with the phono input. I have an LP12 and a few cartridges I can play with

Best regards,

Philip

To PhilP & Foot tapper,

When listening to the Devialet with SAM, as well as the improvement in bass, did the clarity increase? and were you able to hear deeper into the sound stage? also were instruments better separated?

Hi gtiboy,

yes, it wasn't just an improvement in the bass - the overall clarity was much better and the system sounded really alive and engaging. IMHO a bargain at a total cost of around £6.5k.  the source was a Synology NAS connected via USB so in theory even better results could be achieved using Ethernet AIR.

 Just be clear though it was an open day at a dealers so there were people wandering around and talking etc etc so the kind of really detailed analysis that you're asking about was out of the question.  However, I think that the enormous benefits of SAM with this speaker at least were very apparent to everyone there

What's SAM ?

A bit late on this thread, but I had a nice audition with a Diavalet 170 into Totem element stand mounts; something with a 6" or so woofer. This was in Vancouver about three weeks ago. 

I listened for about 45 minutes and I personally think that the Diavalet is the first product I've heard that I would consider other than Naim. It is  true that I've always been at the bottom of the Naim scale, but I've heard some more upper-entry level systems as well. Its also true that I have not heard most of the more expensive systems, but I do count musical fidelity, McIntosh, Classe, Simaudio among the relatively expensive gear I've heard. 

But at +/- $7000.00 the 170 is about what a Superuniti is. My SU shopping has been suspended, as the Diavalet is superb. Not perfect, but then Naim has its' own quirks as well. I love the way Naim makes music, but without a doubt, the Diavalet 170 is a stunning piece of musical equipment. 

I could hear the music separated and clarified, just as Naim does. I could hear 'around' the notes, the front and the back of the notes, with decay and roundness. Even into a modestly sized 2 way, the bass was outstanding, and I did not hear harshness at any point in the listening. Amazing clarity. 

The appearance is neither here nor there for me; and I'm probably less inclined to buy something that looks glitzy, or as if they've stuck a bunch of meters or pseudo industrial bolts on the front, or make the face plate more for show than for function. I like the basic black box. 

Given that Naim will happily have us adding $10K power supplies, I think the Diavalet is easily good value. I also think the sound is stunning. Better than Naim? I could not say. But it is, for me, easily its equal. 

Nuts; just missed the edit opportunity window. Not a 170; a 120. That's the one. But the sound still sticks in my memory. 

I've had mine just over a year now. In that time, it's gained more features and power through firmware upgrades and consistently sounds fantastic. No plans (or need) to change.

Went through this beginning of the year. Demo 170 (now a 200) and NDS. Speakers are S400s. NDS/SN2 and Devialet 170 were the tests.

It was close. But I went for the NDS/SN2 as I found the music staging better and more fluid, the relationship between low/mid/high were more glued together and for me when I connected a demo SN2 to the NDS this clinched it, hearing the music 'in the room' and the better vocal presence.

Devialet felt just slightly behind in this regard. High frequency excellent (sounded like Martin Logans in that regard) but it always felt a little forced, not true (to me)

I love the one box approach and feel the next wave of Devialet builds will be significant.

Switched my Naim XS/flatcap/Ndac for a Devialet 200. I think its an upgrade, phonostage is ok as well...(read:fantastic!)

Still, I like the music section on the forum. 

Why not to switch your D200 for a Naim NDS/XPS/252/300 and get back to the Hi-Fir Corner ?