Keep iTunes and Flac separate

Hi John,

makes perfect sense.

You could create a folder structure within your music library with dedicated folders for FLAC and AAC (itunes gives you AAC files, not mp3).

Library --> FLAC --> Album Artist --> Album --> Titles

          --> AAC   --> Album Artist --> Album --> Titles

Then, by browsing by Folders instead of by Artists you could keep them apart.

But it doesn't really make sense to have one and the same album as a CD rip and as an itunes download. You could get rid of the itunes version, which would make browsing by Artists unambiguous.

Thanks Pink,

My iTunes library (mp3) contains lots of audio which is synched with the family phones and ipods. I thought that I'd store it centrally on my NAS to make it also available to the Naim. The iTunes library contains some music (+podcasts) which haven't been ripped from CD but it does contain duplicates. I don't want to remove the duplicates from the phones/ipods so would like to choose which library to access when I'm on the Naim.

Does that make more sense?

If you're able to give the Naim unit a file path for FLAC's alone then do that and add a second path for the non-duplicate MP3's (which you would need to separate from the duplicates).

It sort of makes sense.

Does the QNAP come with a default built-in UPNP server, as Netgear has with ReadyDLNA? - if so, you could enable that, and have the Twonky server, as your HiFi server, scan and serve the directories with the FLAC files, and the other as LoFi server scan and serve the directories with the MP3 files. You would then just need to go back to the UPNP screen on n-Stream to select a different music server. You would need to have the two directory trees separate and not embedded in each other.

Due to having a legacy iTunes library, which I was being built to solely to drive iTunes fpr iPod/iPhone transfer, I have a iTunes directory in my main 'Music' directory, which contains those files which only exist in the iTunes formats (ALAC, AAC - I also place any MP3 files there). Twonky Server then scans and serves this complete directory so all FLAC files as well as these formats. I then have a separate iTunes directory for those files which exist in FLAC and have copies in ALAC, so they are not duplicated by the Media Server. As long as you turn off iTunes 'Copy files to iTunes Media when adding to library', you can have multiple locations supported in iTunes. When adding new music, you add it to the directory structure, then 'Add Folder to Library' and iTunes reads it in, from the specified location.

I only maintain the ALAC up to 24/48, which is the highest format supported by iPhones and iPod (or certainly last time I tried), but certainly good enough for these devices and the listening environment they support.

Hope this helps - it took a while to work out how to restructure my directories, to give me what I wanted from a Media Server as well as maintaining an iTunes library to serve the i'devices'.

Simon-in-Dublin

To identify my flac HD albums & distinguish them from WAV CD rips or even MP3/AAC albums, I use MP3TAG to append " (HD) " to the album title,  I also append a full stop .  to lossy album titles, so when I'm browsing through my library with n-stream, I can see what format I'm going to be playing.  This is a lot more convenient than going in by device to separate formats (although of course this can still be done). 

I keep all 3 versions (HD, CD, lossy) on-line for a small number of albums so that I can dem the difference in SQ to any interested visitor (and me occasionally).

Works for me ! 

Thanks for the responses and suggestions guys/gals.

in order:

1 - Marky: I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I can get my Naim to point to a file path or not. Currently it looks at uPnP server which itself is looking at 2 paths; flac and iTunes which are held separately. Are you thinking that I can give the Naim each path directly?

2 - Simon: What you're suggesting is what I was aiming for but haven't managed so far. QNAP comes with Twonky by default. Ive tried setting up a second instance but that hasn't worked so far. I've tried setting up logitech server but haven't managed. I think it may only work with squeezebox but it might just be that I'm not doing the right things. With your setup do you see two sources on your Naim to allow you to choose HiFi library or LoFi library?

3 - RJStaines: I can see that your method would work though it means remembering to mark them right. I've used mp3tag and it seems to do a good job. You say that 'going in by separate formats is possible' Is that because you've managed it or assuming that I'll find a solution?

John, I have never even seen a UnitiLite so my apologies if my contribution was unclear or unhelpful.

However, if you can access a network share directly without UPNP I would do that following the premise I outlined. If you have to use UPNP with the UnitiLite then perhaps you can still use the same approach to organise your directories but then only expose the directories containing 1) your FLAC files and 2) your non-duplicate MP3 files to the UPNP server.

To effect this you will need to be able to configure UPNP on your NAS. This should be straightforward. I am not going to get into it here as each NAS will have its quirks but I believe the method holds true. The Naim unit can then only see what you want it to see (the FLACs and non-duplicate MP3's) whilst everyone else can still see what they want to see (the MP3's whether duplicate or not).

Think of it as you deciding what to show the Naim device from your music library. Hope this helps a bit, apologies if not!

+1 to what Marky Mark said.

Only thing to add is that you could help keep organized, after you set up as Mark suggests, while you rip new music in a program like DBpoweramp (and I believe MAX also) where you can have different files types (MP3, Flac, etc.) go to different directories.

I use VortexBox which manages MP3 duplicates very nicely (but requires a computer, doesn't run on NAS.)

Hi John,

I think what you need are completely separated directories, meaning one file path which leads to your streaming library and another for syncing your mobile devices.

This means that your streaming library contains all the 'originals', be they FLAC CD rips or itunes downloads.

The 'mobile device' folder should contain mp3 converts of your FLAC files and one-on-one copies of the itunes downloads. 

This certainly implies that you will have a certain redundancy occupying disc space. But it is the price you will have to pay. This is also how I do it btw.

My hope is that future devices will allow me to use my 'originals' also on mobile devices with regard to  format compatability and storage space. This would relieve me having to maintain two libraries.

Generally advise maintaining a clear directory structure you're happy with as a greater priority than letting third-party software such as iTunes take over as it makes it easier to change things around when you want to or use different applications (as you're finding).

When you look at the upstream / downstream hierarchy think of......NAS Directory Structure > UPNP or iTunes > Unitilite or iPods. So, to review the actions needed if you agree with the method...

1) Create 3 directories for 1) FLAC, 2) MP3 unique and 3) MP3 duplicates (of FLAC's)

2) Expose FLAC and MP3 unique directories through UPNP on NAS

3) Expose MP3 unique and MP3 duplicate directories only to iTunes

Once you are comfortable with this you can obviously adapt the approach further as you see fit.

thanks guys. It sounds like nobody has multiple uPnP servers running on their NAS which would give me what I want without any re-organising of files/folders(directories) and wthout any future maintenance burden.

What I don't want to do is actively manage what the Naim sees. I'd like a solution which I can set up now and it'll work forever (in the IT sense).

Thanks for all your suggestions.

If anyone comes up with two uPnP servers on QNAP to serve each library let me know.

No real active management John. Ongoing, you just need to rip your FLAC's to the FLAC directory etc.

Well John, you have already said that you have tried to install LMS on your QNAP and that you haven't been successful in doing so. I actually have LMS running on my QNAP and it works like a breeze serving my squeezeboxes and also as a UPNP server for my windows phone when I'm sitting outside on the terrace. Maybe you should give it another try. Just make sure to uninstall any previous elements of LMS before setting it up.

There is a thread on this forum where I explained the ins and out of enabeling LMS as a UPNP server. Let me see If I can find it ...

By active management I meant point each library to the naim when I want it or remember to name each file with an identifer.

I've already got Flac and mp3 in separate folders so I'm half way there already.

I'm holding out though for getting LMS running on my QNAP and I'll point that to my mp3s and leave the twonky pointing to the flac. PinkHamster might be able to sort me out with that.

Right, here we go: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...58#25782740324496258

But this really the second step.

First you need to install LMS at all. Have you tried it via the QPKG route? If this doesn't work it may be down to the fact that the firmware on your QNAP is outdated. Start there!

Thanks PinkHamster (!)

I'm relatively new to QNAP so not really sure yet what QPKG route is.

Go to 'Administration' in the main menu of your QNAP. Further on to 'QPKG centre'. Choose the 'Available' tab. From there on you should find your way.

QPKGs are basically 'apps' for QNAP environments and LMS happens to be one of them.

Remember that LMS in its raw state is desigend to run on either Windows or MAC. QNAPs however run on Linux. So this is a completely different implementation, which is materialised in the LMS QPKG.

Hurrah!

Thanks PinkHamster. I had done everything already except SSOTS | stop, toggle, start.

Instantly I now have what I was looking for. 2 uPnP servers on my Naim, Twonky points to my HiFi flac and Logitech points to my LoFi iTunes.

I'm a happy man.

thanks again everyone but especially PinkHamster.

So I do know what QPKG route is after all.

Don't suppose you know how to change the name of the server as displayed on my Naim do you? My name is embedded in a standard string: "Logitech Media Server [%MyName%]" Can i get rid of the "Logitech Media Server" part?

You would only add a pointer to the library once not whenever you want it. UPNP and iTunes would remember it so not active management. The appliances (Unitilite and iPods) would not know the difference. Good luck

Thanks again.

My library name on LMS is embedded in a standard string: "Logitech Media Server [%MyName%]"

Does anyone know if I can get rid of the "Logitech Media Server" part?