Any Beethoven tips?

The Tacaks Quartet have recorded three albums of the string quartets, early, middle and late. They are on Decca and are superb performances, often mentioned in the Radio 3 building a library programme. Highly recommended, so long as you like string quartets!

Piano Sonata interpreters

Richard Goode

Wilhelm Kempff

Symphonies start with the common von Karajan with Berliner Philharmoniker. There are 3 complete series, get the earliest 1960s one. Many pple deride von Karajan but for a beginner, he is fine and is easy to find

Piano Sonatas, Complete Cycles recommend Claudio Arrau or also Friedrich Gulda.  As mentioned above Wilhelm Kempff is also good.  A very good Beethoven master is Emil Gilels, but unfortunately he did not complete the whole cycle of 32 sonatas

Piano Concerti Kryztian Zimerman with Leonard Bernstein with Wiener Philharmoniker

The famous 5th and 7th Symphonies with Wiener Philharmonics conducted by Carlos Kleiber.

The 9th with Berliner Philharmoniker and Ferenc Fricsay.

Both available on Deutsche Grammophon.

Cheers

If You prefer piano stuff, just watch out for Wilhelm Kempff or Emil Gilels.

This is the one to get  :

As recommended by George and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

BEETHOVEN The Orchestral Recordings. Symphonies & Overtures. Philharmonia Orchestra, New Philharmonia Orchestra / Otto Klemperer. EMI 10cds

Re. symphonies, I rather like this :

My top choice for the sonatas:

Symphonies:

String quartets:

 or  

(the Italians have recorded the complete quartets once, the ABQ twice)

Cheers,

EJ

I would avoid Bernstein conducting Beethoven unless you know you like his style. I don't think I'm alone in finding his interpretations often very stylised, over-emotive and uncontrolled in a way that doesn't always serve the best interests of the music.

I know Karajan's 1960s cycle is generally considered the best, but I confess to having a soft spot for his 1980s digital cycle (except the 9th), probably because it was the first one I really engaged with. His 7th just has so much energy and fire, I love it.

For the 9th, I would very strongly recommend Mackerras and the RLPO from the early 90s. Mackerras went back to Beethoven's original metronome markings, and the results are staggering compared to how everyone had been conducting it for the past century or so - much quicker, making for a totally invigorating experience. Once you hear it at the 'proper' speeds, you won't want to go back.

As for piano sonatas, I would throw the name Bernard Roberts into the ring. His full sonata cycle on Nimbus is dirt cheap, gets rave reviews and I've found it excellent.

Mark

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have this playing now on Spotify and am enjoying it. Will work through the piano sonata suggestions on the thread to get started - Kempff, Gilels, Kovacevich and Roberts.

Then onto the symphonies and perhaps even a string quartet. Thanks again.

Mark,

I would turn the argument around: I would definitely listen to Bernstein's Vienna set to find out if you like his style. He is certainly his own man but injects a passion that is hard to miss. Fine if you don't like him but I would suggest not to dismiss him upfront. This series of recordings represents some of his best work.

Cheers,

EJ

Switched to Kempff's mono recordings. Just through Sonata No.1 and what a delight. The playing is sublime. Particularly the Prestissimo which I find beguiling.

Admittedly, i’ve not listened to the great many versions that some of the experts here have, but my purchases earlier this year of Angela Hewitt’s recordings in Italy on the Fazioli seem to be scratching my itch very nicely which prevents me [for the time being] to spend out on a whole box-set.

I couldn’t make up my mind who’s box set to buy anyway, too much choice sometimes.

So far Angela Hewitt has vol.1, 2, & 3.

The vol.4 is due to be released in December later this year which is a recording from last year in Berlin.

Each ‘volume’ is only one CD so this is not the complete works by far and will work out more expensive than buying any box-set, but they are very excellent though, and mine seem to get played often.

Vol.1

Piano Sonata in D major op 10 no.3

Piano Sonata in E flat major ’Grande Sonata’ op 7

Piano Sonata in F minor ‘Appassionata’ op 57

Vol.2

Piano Sonata no.15 in D major ‘Pastoral’ op.28 [24:55]

Piano Sonata no.8 in C minor ‘Pathetique’ op13 [21:56]

Piano Sonata no.3 in C major op 2 no.3 [27:45]

Vol.3

Piano Sonata no.12 in A flat major op26 [19:13]

Piano Sonata no 6 in F major op 10 no.2 [16:19]

Piano Sonata no 27 in E minor op.90 [13:22]

Piano Sonata no.14 in C sharp minor ‘Moonlight’ op27 no.2 [14:58]

Vol.4 [December 2013 release]

Piano Sonata in B flat major op.22

Piano Sonata in E flat major op.31 no.3

Piano Sonata in A major op.101

~<>~

The two Beethoven Cello Sonata CD vols with Hewitt and Daniel Muller-Schott are very fine too and worth consideration if you fancy hearing piano + cello. Two ways to listen to these two CDs [imho or course] background musik whilst having lunch with friends, or sitting down in your comfy armchair sweet-spot to enjoy in the utmost - the cello begs a well tempered naim audio system to bring out the full vibrant flavour. Yummy.

Debs

I was thinking about this thread this morning, and I thought to suggest Kempff's mono cycle. Other things took me away for the day to the great outdoors, and here you are now with Kempff. Great coincidence!

Enjoy...

BBM

I see you've already picked the sonatas, so I will not bother adding my cents on this account.

As for the rest my recomendations are: for symphonies I can not think of better and fresher set then Chamber Orchestra of Europe/Nikolaus Harnoncourt on Teldec from 1991 (they might have made another recording latter, but I don't know that one). These aren't "historically-informed performances", the stuff Harnoncourt is well known for, but are nevertheless a huge step from and above the mainstream (mess) Beethoven performances. The sound quality is very good also.

If I'd have to pick one symphony, I'd go with the 7th.

If not Harnoncourt, I'd pick Kleiber - powerfull and great PRaT.

You can also opt for Böhm - very good indeed, but I think you'd fall asleep.

Violin concerto: Menuhin is never a bad choice, but I'd pick Heifetz any day. You might not appreciate Heifetz and his genius enough, if you're not accustomed to mainstream performances, but on the other hand, why would you want to waste your time with anything else.

Young Anne-Sophie Mutter is also great, but unfortunately the performance is completely unbearable because of Karajan's boring leading of BPO.

Piano concertos: a no-brainer, really - Pollini/Abbado. Great sound too.

And you should not forget the violin sonatas, another no-brainer: Kremer + Argerich.

Enjoy.

A happy coincidence as it is enchanting music and thank-you for the thought. A new door opens...

Thanks Debs, Uros, EJS, Ebor and all others further above if not thanked already. Some great stuff on here and an excellent reference.

A couple of different ones:

I'm a completist, so it is difficult for me to ever answer a question like this in on hour, one day, or one year.  I constantly learn and search for new things everyday to add to my knowledge of any composer and consequently my love for this music grows exponentially every day.  Beethoven, falls in the ranks of my top 10 list of composers where not one thing he has given us musically displeases me.  For my own needs, I have to have it all from early Beethoven to late.  This helps me understand the man and his music better.

Other excellent suggestions above will get you started on the main basics: Piano Sonatas, Piano or Violin Concertos, Triple Concerto, Symphonies, and all the chamber music including Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonatas, Trios of all sorts of combinations, String Quartets plus other combinations including piano, quintets, septet etc. etc.

Once you have gotten a liking of all the main, must listen to works from the main groupings I'd suggest dipping into some of the rarer stuff.  I find it remarkably satisfying too. 

For chamber music, an example is DGG Complete Beethoven Edition, Vol. 14 contains some wonderful music including the Piano Quartets, the Septet etc. and other rarely heard works.

In the same series but volume 6 contains all the smaller works (outside the main body of the 32 Piano Sonatas) for piano.  These being mainly Variations, Bagatelles, early Sonatas, rondos, fantaisies, ecossaisen etc.  

Impossible to say a favourite as everything is my favourite.  With a gun to my head and the ability to pick two favourites every day until I list everything - today I'll say my number one favourite Variations and also one of my life long hobby horses on the piano that I continually work on is the 32 Variations in C minor on an Original Theme, Wo0 80.  Wilhelm Kempff playing is my favourite but any other will be OK too.  Kempff's lyricism and rhythm is outstanding and the way he builds that final climax and draws it out always leaves me speechless every time.  My own goal is to get to 1% of that level and I'd be happy.

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ge&v=hLVqR02cjNc

It's funny that the Diabelli Variations is considered the top variations and it may be the only one that many know.  It is for this reason I am highlighting the other Variations.

Otherwise, easy to find recordings of the Variations / Bagetelles would be Mikhail Pletnev who has a two disc set of these miscellaneous works.  Florian Uhlig has a nice one disc out so far.  Simply too many to name everyone so just start somewhere and anywhere.  Just start with a Brendel, Kovacevich etc. and you can't go wrong.

My second big recommendation (for today only) is the Choral Fantasy in C minor (note that my other pick above was in C minor as well).  Get any version but one that I return to often is Helene Grimaud's disc called Credo (for Arvo Part).  Get this and crank up the volume.  Interestingly, it was this disc (and a few others) that were among the first I ever listened to years ago when I was first introduced to Naim and I had a CD5, 112, and 150.  It was this disc of Grimaud that also gave me the impetus to finally start work on the D minor piano sonata (no. 17) also known as "the tempest" so I have a soft spot for it in my memory.

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ge&v=r4pHb1TPSpg

I'm busy tomorrow so let me give you two more examples representing Beethoven's youthful exuberance that give an idea of some of his typical characteristics and his demeanor that many associate with him.  Note that this is only one characteristic and Beethoven had many others too.

First is the Rondo alla ingharese quasi un Capriccio Opus 129 or better known as the Rage Over a Lost Penny, Vented in a Caprice.  A nice example of his jumping up and down shaking his fist at someone and it leaves you the feeling that you'll never catch your breath either.

Example:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ge&v=ZHetvDqnkzE

Second favourite gem of mine is the C minor Bagatellen (no. 5), op 119.  Again, you see my favourite keys of D minor and C minor being dominant and tending to give me a very particular flavour of Beethoven that I like.  These just happen to suit my personality but may not suit yours or anyone else's for that matter.  This Bagatelle is marked Risoluto and with the 6/8 time signature is very rhythmic, stern, unbending and passionate. It is these early flavours that I think give rise to this notion that Beethoven should always sound stern emulating this brooding man walking around with a furled brow, hands behind his back, and mumbling cusses under his breath at the misery of this earth and the stupidity of others.  Check out Brendel or anyone else for this example.

Couldn't find a better example:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ge&v=NpslFfQhA2A

I hope I did not overwhelm you.  It is hard for me to contain myself though with any great music and I tend to not be able to limit my suggestions so I'll stop here.  This is why I didn't want to say too much about the main body of works as I'd never finish writing and fatigue and kill everyone with excess.

Best Regards, 

Doug

Dear Mark,

Lots of good advice above!

Tony has pointed out that marvellous Klemperer set of Beethoven Symphonies and Overtures. Fantastic performances, and immensely economic as well. Nice when that happens.

It is a quite a large amount of music to grapple with and the most famous pieces are not so hard to find in fine recorded performances, but I'll suggest a delight for you that is not the serious furrowed brow Beethoven of the Symphonies, but light of heart and very easy to enjoy from the first listen, and will remain enjoyable forever ...

The Septet, opus 20 in E flat. Lovely themes, and scored for violin, winds, horn, and double bass. 

There are three recordings of this that I have and commend - by Hausmusik, and two other older ones by the Melos Ensemble, and by members of the VPO. It is such delightful music that I am sure you would not be able to find a poor recording, who ever are the performers!

ATB from George

Doug, thank-you. It is great to see the passion yourself and others share for Beethoven. Imagine this thread has become a invaluable reference for others hoping to learn more about this composer.

Have been enjoying 32 variations just now as I couldn't resist a random pick. Have played Gilels and Kempff back-to-back. Kempff had the advantage of being streamed through the stereo rather than the laptop so will not jump to any conclusions on preferences. Suffice it to say I like them both!

Thanks George. Will look forward to the Klemperer as recommended by Tony and yourself. Will try that Septet too as have been very piano-focused with Chopin and risk the same here. Thanks again.

Woy, will add Perahia to the Kempff and Gilels head-to-head. I saw Perahia at the Barbican this year and he was superb.

Beethoven wrote one concerto for violin, and it's a particularly fine masterpiece. There are many fine recordings of this opus, but arguably none finer than David Oistrakh, with Andre Cluytens conducting the French National Radio Orchestra on EMI. Oistrakh has a distinctive tone, and is a violinist of the highest musical order. His Brahms and Tchaikovsky are also very fine. 

Other options from the older school are Milstein/Steinberg/Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, and Heifetz/Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra (although I find the tempo with Heifetz a bit brisk). The Milstein is wonderful, as one would expect, and is a strong rival for the Oistrakh recording.

Of Beethoven's five piano concertos, the ones I think are special are #3 and #4. A great older recording is Leon Fleisher with the Cleveland Orchestra under George Szell on Sony. A newer option is Perahia with Haitink conducting the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra on CBS Masterworks. I find Piano Concerto #5 less interesting due to the overtly heroic themes, but that's just me.

If you wish to have a complete set of the five Piano Concertos, and you want to hear more Wilhelm Kempff, then get the Kempff/Van Kempen/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra on DG. This collection is very fine, but is in glorious mono, which may effect your choice. The Perahia collection of the five concertos is also wonderful, so you have some great options here. I have no real preference between these two excellent collections.

The sound quality on all of these older recordings is quite remarkable, due to remastering, and doesn't detract from the performances in any way.

There are many fine young violinists and pianists recording these concertos, but I am not too familiar with them overall. 

Cheers

BBM