Almost ridiculous difference

I am intriqued  by the directionality as well. Certainly by definition a duplex ethernet cable connected to a switch  ( a cable using 4 pairs[8P8C]) is bidirectional simultaneously - it has send and receive circuits, a half duplex cable connected to a hub alternates it's directionality using flagging and collision detection. 1000BaseT can only be full duplex. 10BaseT and 100BaseT can be full or half duplex. Naim only currently supports 100BaseT and possibly 10BaseT.

Therefore I can only assume  the directionality is more about choking the end connected to the switchport and perhaps designed to reduce common mode RFI common in some consumer network gear IME.

As I said earlier, there is nothing new of fantastical here, other than a possible new affluent consumer market, and is nothing to do with TCPIP but the analogue electrical characteristics of the cable .

So if this is so, then using higher quality network equipment may reduce the affect of the cable or be achieved with correctly positioned chokes. 

I think greater transparency of the techniques used is preferred, such as why the directionality applies, and that might remove the suspicion of snake oil. My disclosure .. I haven't perused through the cable marketing blurb.

BTW there is a lot of mention of cable geometry types in this thread. Cat 5e (enhanced)  has been common for many years for structured wiring and non specialised data centre work. It's good for 1000Mbps. Cat 5 is an older spec, I very rarely come across this now, and i would recommend upto  100Mbps, this would be fine for Naim.

Most high speed (1Gbps or higher) commercial network infrastructure transmission use fibre now.(1000Base-SX and 1000Base-LX) . With twisted copper for the edge or patches.

Simon

Jonas

indeed it is best to leave this thread and I'll join you.

the problem with dogmatics is they can't let go, they probably feel insecure outside of their limited 'safe' world of 'proven' beliefs.

it shows lack of a true scientific mindset for them to circle around within their self-defined bounderies and not challenge their own beliefs.

they constantly ignore the aspects that challenge their limited beliefs and they clinch to their dogmatic bits-are-bits mantra as if nothing else exists in the real world.

Just enjoy your improved system with the knowledge that you have empirically established that there are improvements to be had.

these people forget there are two types of knowledge:

- knowledge we already discovered and

- knowledge we have not yet discovered.

bye

??? sorry I missed that bit, by what method, what hypotheses and or case studie(s)?

and, according to a Naim insider, it can sound better too, since it electrically decouples the source and the player...  

or Newton's third law ?

We look forward to your findings.

Same here. Odd isn't it? Because it never happens with any other aspect of HiFi does it? I've always been able to understand the theory, or get someone to explain it to me and pretty much predict what I will hear off the specs. In fact, I think we should consider chopping everything in and just reading the sheet music. Then we'll all be on the same page.

Jonas. I'm with you and out of this thread. I could see where this was going as soon as you posted. And TBH I probably shouldn't have contributed.

Jan - wifi is decoupled from CAT 5e cable yes, but can be renowned for causing  RFI if you are not careful - and are relatively quite hungry from a power point of view.

There is no free lunch - I think a isolated Ethernet cable interface - although expensive - is the best way if you are having network noise issues, followed by screened  Ethernet lead (close to audio equipment) then quality switch / switch PSU and finally common mode ferrite chokes around Ethernet lead. I use the last three methods - and each one seemed to make a positive difference

Simon

There's a review on audiostream.com. It quotes the unintentionally hilarious Audioquest marketing puff, but concludes that these cables make the music sound a lot better, which they do.

Keith

I would like to put my new audiophile cabling firm "TogTec" forward as the contractor for that job - shortly before I buy myself an island. I'm also developing a new ethernet cable that uses Quantum Foam theory to bind multiple coils of platinum around a core made of pure Togtanium (patent pending) - price on application - I call it the Absinthe Surprise ethernet cable. 

Tog

@simon:

 ferrite chokes around Ethernet lead: which end? the one closest to the streamer, or the one next to the end that goes into the wall - or both? They are $1 each, but hard to get on ? My house has Ethernet in the walls...

How would a linear psu on the Ethernet switch (netgear) make a difference?

I have a 180 gram audiophile pressing of Newton's 6th on my turntable right now.

Tog

Tog...I know your favourite past time is peeing on the furniture, so maybe we should start a new thread called the 'litter tray' where you can show disdain to your hearts content.

Jason.

God knows what Mrs Poggle would say about peeing on the furniture!

Simon

Can you recommend a linear power supply make or supplier? 

Thanks 

Graham 

My son, bless him, is just starting an MEng in electrical and electronic engineering at Huddersfield. It's a great place, but a bloomin' long way! Another downside is that he insists a Powerline can make no difference to the sound, and that my linear power supply cannot improve my UnitiServe. My ears think he's wrong on both counts, but he knows he's right. It will be interesting whether his views change or harden as the course progresses.

I will fess up that my interest has been piqued and I'm going to try a couple of Audioquest leads to hear for myself whether they make a difference. Vodka is too expensive by far, but Cinnamon seems a sensible balance. They do look rather pretty in any event. For years I insisted that Powerlines were a waste of time, but it made a really big improvement. So who knows.

I have a copy of Thinking Fast and Slow on the bedside table, and must start reading it. Then I'll be able to test my own cognitive bias when faced with leads named after one of my favourite spices.

Hi, I use ferrite chokes clamped around  ethernet lead at the NDX end. I used to use a Netgear switch in the listening room with a cheap wall wart SMPSU. I had interference from the SMPS on my FM radio and I felt my digital audio some times sounded slightly off . I then moved to a Cisco 2960 8 port switch with internal SMPSU. No issues at all and all interference banished. I also them used a screened Ethernet lead at my NDX end, and that was positive (I still wrap a ferrite choke around it). The screened Ethernet lead was about £10.

Simon

Hi hungryhalibut, if your son perhaps takes up some modules on electro magnetic conduction/interference in his second year he might change his view. Unfortunately I only got to grips with EMI in my third year and it nearly cost me my dissertation.. where EMI caused me serious grief with RFI  affecting timing and accuracy of logic circuits causing loss of precision and instability. Mine was BSc Computer Engineering .

Simon

Hi Tog,

i think the problem is that your trying to put forward a hypothesis, but it comes over as conjecture because you haven't heard the cables. I understand your position because it feels intuitively right, a bit like the answers on QI when the sirens go off.

Keith 

I have a physicist friend who owns a highly successful company which sells magnets around the world. He thinks my mains leads are hilarious!

Well, yes, but now you have a RF receiver right there next to your player. Wouldn't it be "noisy"?

Blimey, Jason a post that misses the point, deftly avoids dealing with the issues and yet still manages to mangle a childish insult with a complete disregard for logic - you really don't like people who disagree with you do you? 

How can the material effect (please get it right) of a cat peeing on furniture imply that the cat is showing contempt or a lack of respect for the furniture whilst marking his territory. Since a cat is unlikely to have much of a conceptual grasp of either furniture or human emotions.

As for the litter tray it's nice to know that whilst my attempts at light-heartedness are sarastic and rude your chosen metaphor is both wholesome and witty.

If you are going to be rude at my expense at least do me the decency of making sense.

4/10 

Tog

Keith

I take your point about hearing the specific cable. I think I was trying to suggest a that there may be psychological reasons why we sometimes sub-consiously choose to hear things that might not exist.  I think there are sufficient practical arguments surrounding the way in which network data is transported via ethernet to make the likely-hood of a super cable making a significant difference is slim. Curiously the last time my views got such a reaction was when I suggested to friends that IMHO ghosts do not exist - that got a surprisingly negative response!!!

Tog