Dylan or Morrison

Hi Harry,

I've seen both a number of times over the years. Bob is still favourite live and he didn't foreshorten his set once unlike Van who cut short two of the concerts I saw because of his mood. Van's a great singer but a right moody so and so.

Steve

I suppose one might have to give Sir Paul the nod for music composition, but for lyrics and consistency he pales in comparison to His Bobness IMHO - a few too many "silly love songs" for my taste.  But certainly he and Neil Young are more worthy rivals than Van.  But when you consider the breadth of genres (from folk to rock, spirituals and gospel, country etc. etc.) that Dylan has tackled, and succeded in over his 5 decade career, I'd have to say that neither of these two quite measures up either.

I was recently listening to a radio show about religious music and one of the guests, self-described as by no means a Dylan fan, said that "Shot of Love" (an album I don't particularly care for) is one of his favourite gospel albums. I think that speaks volumes.

For the fun of it, a quick count of just studio albums for singer/songwriters listed on Wikipedia shows

Dylan - 36 (33 solo + 2 Traveling Wilburys + 1 The Band)

Young - 40 (37 solo + 3 CSNY)

McCartney - 50 (23 solo/Wings + 13 Beatles + 6 classical + 3 soundtracks + 3 Fireman + 1 electronica + 1 mash-up)

Johnny Cash - 55 (good call zipperhead banjo)

Frank Zappa - well in excess of 60!!!

others Stevie Wonder 23, Paul Simon 17, Bonnie Raitt 16, James Taylor 16, Jackson Browne 13

Simple

Dylan is top up to Blood on the Tracks. An incredible run of almost 10 years. But entirely missable since (with the exception of a few tracks, Hurricane being one of them).

Van the first 4 are masterpieces. Missable after that.

Young (like Dylan) an incredible run in the 70s, but lots of people jumped off ship on that Trans album.

There is something about Dylan that lifts him above the rest (him and the Beatles too). They just represent so much beyond what their music says.

The one man that Dylan owes so much. Lightin' Hopkins. Any of his prestige discs (7 of them) an unparalleled ability to put you in a situation with just a few words. Only Dylan bettered that. "Stuck inside of Mobile" is pure genius.

+1 Dylan.

Unless you really meant JIM morrison lol.

"Van The Man" was never really my thing, but apparently my dad met him briefly while staying at a bedsit in ireland some years ago.

I find this impossible to call really. His Bobness has undoubtedly written some great songs, but I do struggle a bit with his voice, always have. I'm not entirely delirious with Van's voice but there's just that something about his music and delivery that gets to me at a deep level and given a final choice I'd reach for a Van Morrison album rather than A Bob Dylan one.

Nice question Harry.

Dylan tends to polarise opinions and I too am not keen on his more recent albums.

His 60s and 70s output though is musical genius and I for one absolutely love the tone of his voice on these albums. As for his phrasing and lyrics, no one else gets even close.

I have Vans country album which I really like and hear his sixties hits on the radio however I don't think his musical legacy can cut it next to Bobs.

Ray

why choose?

Big fan of both.

I think we lose sight of just how good Van is though and his legacy. He is simply  the best soul singer/composer ever. Some of his music has a spirituality that Dylan's never hints of. But Van is just music. Dylan like the Beatles defined a generation. His songs mean so much to so many. I wouldn't like to do without either. However Gloria would do more for me now than Chimes of Freedom (both 1964).

SJB

Eh? Have you been on the brown acid?

Are you seriously saying the ludicrously overrated Morrison and his dirgey songs are better than great soul singers and composers like Stevie Wonder, Sam Cooke, Donny Hathaway, Sly Stone, Isaac Hayes, James Brown, Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Otis Redding, Michael Jackson, and the output of Stax, Motown, Philly, Atlantic etc?

Really?

I mean, really? Or are you just being perverse?

starting your discussion with "overrated Morrison and his dirgey songs" is hardly conducive to a (thoughtful and polite) reply. (there's obviously a BUT though isn't there?)

Considering he started RnB style in the early 60's and his latest album has some gems on it and he writes all his own songs over that period, YES I would say he is the best soul singer/composer. Soul in its widest musical sense not just the black American and dead (literally or artistically) variety you mention above.

SJB

So Stevie Wonder is not a composer then? Or Sly, Smokie, JB, Donny or Marvin? None of them wrote their own songs, did they?

I find VM boring, his songs dirgey and twee and his voice irritating in the extreme. If I never hear "Brown Eyed Girl", "Moondance" or the godawful "Arsetral Weaks" and its weedy "jazz" stylings again it will be too soon. (However I should say here that I have quite a soft spot for Them).

As well as I can think of loads of "white" singer-composers who are more "soulful' or more "spiritual" than Morrison - Scott Walker and Lennon were just the first two who sprang to mind.

Consequently, I find your statement  - and of course you are perfectly entitled to express your views  - that he is "the best soul singer-composer" daft and hyperbolic.

Dylan / Morrison or Them?  

Come on Kevin, don't pussyfoot about, what do you really think of him?

Bit daft to attack someone's own perfectly valid views, isn't it? 

being a bit of a hyerbolic yourself here.......

SJB

What do I think? I think he's bloody great Tony. Not only is he the best soul singer-composer ever, he's the best composer-singer ever. Best female singer too, and best guitarist, better than Hendrix IMO; as well as finding a cure for cancer, he's also responsible for reconciling relativity and quantum mechanics, discovering cold fusion, and doing a really nice job re-fitting my kitchen too.

He is the most sacred of all sacred cows and anyone who criticises him or thinks he's overrated and a bit shit must themselves be criticised and be made to see the error of their ways via re-education through labour and a period of not less than three weeks in the stocks.

On a less sarcastic note, why is it "daft" to disagree with someone else's opinion or views? 

Really?

There's nothing wrong with having different views to someone else, but by doing so with scorn and sarcasm is discourteous and unnecessary. It's not "daft" for someone to express their honest opinion.

My original reply to you was ironic. I'm sorry you didn't read it like that; I don't often use "Smileys".

You seem to misunderstand. Nowhere did I say that it was daft for SJB to express his opinion. What I said was that the opinion itself  (ie that Van Morrison is the best soul singer-composer ever) was daft. This is a very important distinction, and one, perhaps, that we would all do well to recognise.

I am in favour of free speech, open dialogue and free expression. I would never criticise anyone for exerting their right to express their views and opinions. I would defend (almost, but not quite - I'm not quite that brave ) to the death anyone's right to express any opinion that is within the law. However I would equally forcefully defend mine or anyone else's right to disagree with said opinion. If some people think that is being scornful or sarcastic or discourteous, then so be it.

It is as valid for me to say SJB's comment was silly as it was for SJB to express said opinion in the first place. You, of course are perfectly entitled to disagree with me, or to tell me I'm wrong/being daft or whatever.

Looks like we both misunderstood then Kevin. Anyway, I rather like Van Morrison...

 You, of course are perfectly entitled to disagree with me, or to tell me I'm wrong/being daft or whatever.

We all know you're daft Kevin. That's what we like about you.  In fact we all have to be daft to be on this forum.