Bicycle Bits! - What’s your latest acquisition?

No

That's exactly what Surly are all about. My Cross check (set up as a tourer above) is their CX bike but it works in so many configs: drop bar, straight bar, single speed, road or mtb gearing (it has a 132.5 back end so can use road or mountain hubs) - it will do it all...

...& it wheelies good too!

Also have a look at their Krampus 29+ bike as that's designed for headbanging down trails.

cheers!

I wonder if any of you kind folks would care to share some information/ recommendations with me?  I mentioned earlier in this thread that I have bought a C59 frame.  I have also got Campy Record groupset however, this does not include the bottom bracket.  I think the frame is designed for traditional English thread bottom bracket, but I am very ignorant about this area.  My question is, are there any other bottom brackets on the market in this configuration which you would recommend before the Campy Record one?

Peter

I think the only BB that will work at all with your SR crankset is the Campy one. It uses standard-looking screw-in external bearing cups. But uniquely it uses a small circlip to hold the drive-side bearing (and therefore the crankset) in place. Campy BBs are very nice. Bearings are great, and they have an upgrade to ceramic bearings available (third-party bearings are also compatible).

Be sure to use a torque spanner (wrench) on the "Ultra-torque" bolt that holds the two halves of the spindle together. You need a special tool (inexpensive) to do it right. 

Campy have tonne of info on their website about working on their gear. See this one...

http://www.campagnolo.com/repo...rankset_UK_06_12.pdf

Not sure about the threading, but it will either Italian or English threading. You can measure the width as per the diagram in the linked document to tell you. Your local bikeshop will be able to help.

But the BB should have come with the crankset. How did you end up with no BB? 

Winky

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.  When I have all the bits (which I am aware of!!) gathered together I will most likely pay a bike shop to carry out the build - I spoke with a couple of very competent shops last year and they were more than happy to do so.  Given your response, I'll probably leave the bottom bracket bits for them to source.

Good question re the crankset!  What happened was, when I was having heaps of trouble sorting out my Cento Uno's gear changing, I bought a spare crankset off fleabay.  The parts are unused but didn't include the bb.  As it turned out, when the chap replaced umpteen parts on the Cento Uno, he volunteered that there was no point replacing the existing crank set which is still in good condition.  I was a bit surprised given that I've been using it on the weekend for the last few years - maybe not clocking up as many miles as I thought!  On the upside, the Cento Uno gear shift continues to work perfectly now.  The ergos, derailleurs and cassette I've bought separately from on line retailers at reasonably good prices (albeit not as good as if I'd started from scratch and bought a complete groupset).

I think the bottom bracket is just about the last piece in the puzzle that I am aware of.

I bought a 'half way house' set of wheels - Mavic Carbone 40C clinchers.  I think they look pretty good, I'm sincerely hoping that their braking performance and reliability will be very good, the mechanicals/ durability should be robust; and the trade off is that they aren't the lightest and nor are they the most aero of wheels (reality check is that this is not an issue for someone of my relative incompetence!).  I loved the look of the Enve 45 clinchers with Chris King hubs but the cost is prohibitive for pottering about in the south of England and you can't be too precious about these things!

Peter

Good luck with it. Building bikes up isn't hard, but to do a really top job, there are a couple of tools that are either essential or that just minimise the risk of damage (such as pressing in headset bearings and getting the right torque on the carbon bits). Other things come with experience, like getting cable housing just the right length, and pro-level handlebar wraps. Derailluer and indexing adjustment can be tricky. Brakes obviously need to be done just right.

Modern narrow chains have become a bit tricky, and you don't want to risk later breakage. Although now, I run mine with joining links which take all the skill out of it really. You just need a chain tool to cut the chain to length, and you aren't stressing about getting the joining pin "just so".

But I find bike shops usually do a great job. I mix my own maintenance with the occassional visit to the local bike shop.

I think there is a massive difference between 'doing it' and 'doing it properly' and I have neither the time, skill nor inclination to persevere sufficiently to fall into the latter camp!  The chap who sorted my campy gear shifting problems out will be my preferred choice - you wouldn't credit the number of people who I tried before tracking him down (he moved between shops).

The campy 11 speed does seem to be very sensitive to being set up right - more so with some frames and their none-to-clever cable routing and, from what I've been told, things like the length of the cable loop feeding the rear derailleur can make a significant difference.  I wouldn't stand a chance!

Bar tape I haven't thought about - I ended up getting Enve stem and bars with their integral bar end caps (which must confess look a bit odd!).  Totally agree having made a mess of this that it is so much better leaving to someone who fits it on a regular basis....

I'll be fitting a KMC S11XL chain and I'll carry a spare chainlink - previous experience is that these chains are great - I've had no problems and got great mileage out of them on my 10 speed commuter.

Colango BBs used to be ITA, but I think they now offer BSA and PF 30 so you need to check. I would stay away from PF 30 if you want to run Campy. My Extreme Power is ITA which is a bugger as my other frames are BSA. 

campy 11 speed is more sensitive compared to the 10 speed and they do make life difficult with their preference for proprietary tools, but I find the initial set up hassle is rewarded by a relatively issue free drive train thereafter. I run a combination of triples and doubles - all good, the only limitation being my lardy arse and not the gruppo. 

For wheels, if you want carbon hoops then those Enve are bullet proof, especially with 28 spokes. CK hubs also offer great longevity. 

Indexing!

Get a friction gear shift and you will never need to tune it again!

ATB from George

Yeah, but I could never go back. Friction downtube shifters are just so annoying to use.

Annoying only if you have not developed the skill. Just like playing a double bass without frets.

ATB from George

George

I grew up with shifters on the down tube.  This progressed (debatable!) to indexed gears on the down tube eventually ending up with ergo indexed shifters on the bars.

I agree that the ergos are not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye, but functionally ergos are a huge step forward.

I know you love your Carlton, but hopefully you will spend a while riding a bike with ergo levers and then see what you think (you may already have done this!).

Peter

Dear Peter,

Almost exactly 12 months ago i bought an Ambrosia [Guido Mark Two Frame] cycle kitted out with 11 speed indexed Campag. Second hand of course but from a bike seller and the cycle was his personal machine. It failed completely to beat the archaic Carlton as fitted with a [1980s] Super Record group-set, though the Campy stuff was hardly original equipment. I might add that the friction levers were actually the very fine and light to use "C" Record down tube levers, but never mind.

What killed the Ambrosio, which was a pound lighter than the Carlton was that on my commute it was 2 mph slower with a similar style of riding.

The Frame was not so balanced as the ancient Carlton and the gears less useful.

Not all that glisters is gold.

Sometimes the archaic has some significant practical as well as philosophic advantages!

ATB from George

PS: The cycle was completely built up from the frame by yours trully even without the correct drifts to instal the the headset, which has not required adjustment in three years.

IME friction levers on the down tube were pretty cool in their day with a 5 block or 6 block, or maybe even a 7 block, ….and when one could purchase a bulk order of 10 sedis chains for 20 quid.

But times have moved on with 9 speed and 10 speed rear blocks, and RTI is so very easy to use, and perhaps a little bit safer too.

Things have become better, and neater,  but at a hell of a price…

Debs

Dear Debs,,

I must be a proper pleb!

Only a DAC V1, Nap 100 and ESLs, and my cycle is a two times six speed [friction shift] Super Record equipped Carlton.

I ask for nothing more!

Love from George

Hi George

Interesting point you make.  I was out with a few friends today and whilst there was some discussion about some new bikes currently being procured, there were two steel framed bikes in the group.  The strongest out of the four of us was on a 1988 steel frame, albeit with ergo shifters.  The weakest was also on a steel bike!

Over the obligatory post ride coffee (no cakes!!), we were asking the faster chap how he found this 'winter bike' compared with his all carbon framed 'summer bike'.  Surprising to me (probably not you, given your comparison above) he described that the old bike is the better fit for him and his times are no slower on it.  Indeed, I think he prefers it.  I picked it up and it really is quite a lightweight bike - I didn't check specs but assume it must have been pretty decent in its day (and today too for that matter!).

The other friend on his fairly old steel framed steed is replacing in the summer (when Mssrs Rourke find time) with a new steel framed bike.

I currently have two road bikes, both of which are carbon framed, one with Shimano and the other with Campy groupsets.  For me, the difference between the two is astonishing, particularly when going up steep hills and cornering on descents.  I am convinced that the main difference between the two lies in the frame geometries which in turn forces a significantly different weight balance distribution on bike and rider.

Where does this take me?  Well, I am pretty convinced that most of the speed we achieve on bikes are founded on level of fitness and decent fit between body and frame/ contact points, not really frame material/ weight. 

The ergo shifters vs down tube shifters question is also not going to make much difference in overall speed however, I do think they offer advantages in safety and convenience. Simply put, you do not need to take your hands off the bars during any gearshift.  This makes you more stable and secure (if you have hit an unsighted pot hole mid change you will know what I mean!).  Changes when you hit a steep uphill section are also in my opinion so much easier to manage, shifts being possible out of the saddle - I wouldn't dream of doing this on down tube shifters!

As for 11 speed vs 10/ 9/ 8 speed, again if you are fit enough, there is no need for 11 gears.  My recent experience with an 11 speed bike demonstrated there can be downsides to 11 gears as it took me a very long time to get my gears to change cleanly.  I suspect if the manufacturers insist on making 12+ gears, there may be little choice but to run with electronic shifts - but let's not get onto that subject!!  What's more important to me is the ratios you have in the cassette than the number of sprockets.  A couple of years back a chap came on an organised ride which lasted 3 days.  It looked like he had 11-21 cogs on the back and a standard chain set.  We had great fun watching the colour of his face when we got to the Peak District!!  Mysteriously his back wheel (and cassette) was changed on the overnight stop!

Sorry for rambling, my general point being that it is very difficult to make specific objective points on one aspect of a bike without going into significant detail to help establish where differences may lie.

Peter

Dear George,

you haven’t got a Plebish bone in your body,

and nor are you a Luddite going by your DAC V1 ; )

IMO it’s totally respectable to ride around on classic bicycle machinery, and tbh these days i really regret selling my two Renolds 531c tubed frames [about 15 years ago] which were custom made for me in the early 80s.

Now I’m lumbered with modern aluminium bone shaking technology, the marvelous frame builder engineers choice of the 90s apparently, which maybe very nice in some respects in weight/functionality/cost but it sure lacks the charm, feel, and soulful connections of my old hacks : (

I still have my old campag gear shifter levers

best regards

Deborah

I'm the same age as you, George. I have logged many miles on bikes with down-tube shifters. They are now simply interesting relics. DT friction shifters and old derailleurs just aren't as good as modern shifters and derailleurs) in terms of doing what they need to do. They look cool and all that, but just like a Mazda MX-5 will drive circles around an MGB, technology has moved on.

(Your finding that an old mid-level Carlton, which is also too big, is faster than a decent modern carbon bike must be urgently passed along to the professional cycling teams.)

Really!

I was told that the Carlton [501 framed, but geometry of the pro-cycle of the early eighties from the co.] of the type I have is a bit of a late classic, and not to be blinked at even in terms of the great older 531 Reynold Carlton frames. After all mine is both stronger and lighter than all but a handful of earlier 531 frames, and has survived [better then me] two driver inspired collisions!

ATB from George

Dear Winki,

The frame is massive, but would only be too big if the reach were too far and the saddle could not be put low enough. I have an inch and half left to drop the saddle, and the reach is prefect. I could even drop the quill handle-bar if I wanted, but I am not that interested in wind resistance at 20 mph!

However, when in  Britain, do visit, and I can show you some hills to make Alpinists sick! I am a hill-climber even on a cycle not really geared for it!

ATB from George

I think you need to differentiate between short, steep ramps and long, sustained drags before comparing with the Alps. I can't think of anything that gives you > 750m changes in altitude @ an average of > 7% in the UK. At least, not with Tarmac underneath you. I would hate to descend / ascend with friction shifters, although bar ends might work better. I used to find cycling in mid -wales hard work, but nothing when compared to an Alpine pass. 

Dear Hugh,

Apart from the Lake District, the Malvern Hills give a great chance for hill-climbing in England, and unlike continental roads there are some serious banks after several miles of continuous gradient. The steep bit is always at the top in Hereford and Worcester. It is what kills cycling visitors. In Norway nobody would be expected to mount the banks available in Herefordshire, though the peak are higher ...

ATB from George

I'm still rocking 9sp indexed DT shifters on one of my bikes. Don't even have to think about gear changing I'm so used to them... I do agree with the standing climbing comment though. Brifters are nice but I've seen so many crash damaged sets that I wouldn't want to spend a lot on a set myself...

George, the Malverns are mere hillocks

Old style might be cool, and you prefer it, but the modern shifters are more efficient, accurate (no real learned skill required), and safer.

I have been riding with shift/brake combos for 10+ years now (Campy and Shimano). I have crashed just once with them in that time (on my touring bike -ran into the back of a car stopped at some lights - doh!). The lever was twisted inwards by the impact, but easily repositioned. Shifter was fine. The handlebar itself failed a few days later. The shifter/brake is still going strong 7+ years later. I've never serviced one and never had one fail. I've only ever heard of one failing (snapped lever on a Campy Chorus front shifter).