start me up...

Posted by: glasgowbernardo on 12 November 2013

First time posting on this forum, so usual over-humble apologies....
Bought a unitilite last month, and after the initial glorious honeymoon period, am keen to start streaming. After many hours online reading, and numerous groans over the morning cornflakes from Mrs Bernard who is bored of my hi fi chat, I am no closer to understanding WHAT I NEED TO STREAM. I have an imac, the Unitilite, a Virgin hub, and remedial understanding of IT.
I  wonder if anyone can set out a list of what I must buy to get this off the ground, please? Getting nowhere fast, and computer shop workers don't seem to be into hifi....
Thanks in advance.
Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by Ingenius:

+1 for JasonF

if you can afford it ... this is the way to go .. no faffing... after all its about listening to music.

If you are on a budget and you have some of the stuff knocking aroud, like a USB hard drive as i did , then it isnt too difficult or costly to get up and running and gain an understanding into something of what goes on inside a unitiserve..

For me.. when funds allow i will buy the Unitiserve.. but being of a curious nature, i dont regret the learning curve of getting a workaround up and running

regards

Keith

Agreed Ingenious, it's all about the motivation and well done on your success by the way. 

 

Jason.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Ingenius

Cheers JasonF

its good to pass on advice based on experience, i was that man glasgowbernardo only 2 weelks ago, and the advice from all members was priceless.

regards

Keith

 

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by charlesphoto
Originally Posted by skipper44:

Charles, which ripper (hardware) do you use? I hope to go Vortexbox soon. Online I've seen VB Appliance, Small Green Computer, LIV Zen. - skipper

Hi Skipper,

 

I purchased mine from Small Green Computer (I'm in the US). They've been really great with me and some stupidity on my part. I paid a premium and got the 1tb micro-box (vs the standard) as I figured if it did end up in the living room it was a good match for the Naim. As it is the cheaper model would have been fine. Honestly, unless money is no problem it does the same thing as the Unitiserve for about $3000 less. No, not the same build quality, but it's really just a basic box to store and release ones and zeros. I'd rather spend my money downstream (or on more cd's). Sacrilege I know.

 

The Small Green's come pre-loaded with Bliss and Logitech Media Server. I do find it important to check what you are doing while ripping, so have the GUI web browser open and the Samba file share window open on my laptop near the setup (wirelessly). We've had some internet connection drops lately, and if you just mindlessly shove the cd's in they will rip as 'Unknown.' Well get several of those and you will want to rip your hair out if you've already moved on (i.e. connection came back and still mindlessly ripping) and packed the cd's away. Another example is the Beatles Mono box. After ripping about half of it I realized that all of the lp's are tagged 'Beatles In Mono' vs their proper lp names. So those will have to be ripped and tagged individually. 

 

But to the OP I'm making this sound way more complicated than it is. really, whatever you go with NAS wise it's just a matter of loading some software, plugging cables, following some basic instructions re ripping, and the Naim's recognize the UpNp in a matter of seconds. It really couldn't be easier. 

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by skipper44
Originally Posted by Jasonf:

Hi Skipper, 

 

Just so that I am clear, are you streaming to your Uniti via a standard external USB hard drive?

Or are you using said hard drive to backup something else?

 

 

Jason,

The external WD 1 TB "My Passport" HD is purely to store and stream my music files, and the Time Capsule internal HD is used for Apple's Time Machine backup for our personal computers. I am using this setup purely as a 'proof of concept' (= get up and running) setup till such time as I put up a NAS. If I could spare the cash I'd undoubtedly go for the UnitiServe, end of story. Hope that clarifies. 

 

Am preparing somewhat more detailed post on this subject.

 

skipper.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by skipper44
Originally Posted by charlesphoto:
 The Small Green's come pre-loaded with Bliss and Logitech Media Server. I do find it important to check what you are doing while ripping, so have the GUI web browser open and the Samba file share window open on my laptop near the setup (wirelessly). We've had some internet connection drops lately, and if you just mindlessly shove the cd's in they will rip as 'Unknown.' Well get several of those and you will want to rip your hair out if you've already moved on (i.e. connection came back and still mindlessly ripping) and packed the cd's away. Another example is the Beatles Mono box. After ripping about half of it I realized that all of the lp's are tagged 'Beatles In Mono' vs their proper lp names. So those will have to be ripped and tagged individually.

Thank you Charles for sharing your recent (?)1st hand experience. The para above about the ripping issues forewarns us newbies.

 

skipper.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi Skipper, there are good range extenders for reasonable money, but unless you have thick walls I MIMO wireless router should provide good range.. Just best to keep it high up with as little clutter and metal around or near it.

Simon

 

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by skipper44

One quick fix implementation to get those electrons pumping and sound waves pulsing.

 

Some detail:

1. I've got the ISP's Cable Modem connected to Time Capsule via ethernet cable.
2. Time Capsule is my wifi router meant for the general use of the household, i.e.. internet for our laptops, tablets, including iPad with nStream app. If Uniti 2 is not connected to this network via ethernet cable then, it too can use this wifi with it's antenna screwed into place.
2. Time Capsule has 3 x Gigabit LAN ports so the Uniti 2 is connected using ethernet cable to one of these.
3. The external HD is connected to Time Capsule via USB. I am told by Apple that a USB hub may be profitably used to include more devices as long as the hub is independently powered.
4. This hard drive is used via wireless, by XLD (for Mac) ripping software, as the storage destination for my rips.
5. 2 TB internal HD included in TCapsule is being used purely for Time Machine backup of my MBPro and other family owned devices. Original intention was to use this internal drive as the music server and it looked like an elegant solution, but the Apple store sales person said this could only be used for Time Machine backups. I now find in the Apple literature that the internal drive can be used like any other drive and infact constitutes a NAS so, that is the next experiment. Regret I didn't pick up the 3TB TC which was my original intent. As an aside, previous generation TC's boasted 'server grade HD' - that description has been conspicuously left out of the current Apple spiel.
6. Some observations (expert comments invited) -
(a) The HD via USB does not constitute a NAS, and it seems to have speed limitations, perhaps discernible when it comes to the server software building it's music library which it seemed to do all the time since my MBPro travels out of the house with me. I wonder if this aspect can be tweaked for improvement?
(b) This sort of setup requires my MBPro or other personal computer to be installed with the media server software, and this device should be accessible and all on the same network when you want to stream. Thoughts of Raspberry Pi + TC + HD doing this job?
(c) I've experimented with Twonky, Plex, Universal Media Server (UMS), Asset UPNP (Mac version avail as beta only), JRiver Media Center for Mac. I believe VLC can also do the job. I found the JRiver and Asset to be most friendly though Asset was not seamless probably due to the fact that it is only a beta version for Mac, and I suspect a real NAS would help in all cases. I am guessing a naiive definition of NAS could be: a storage device that has it's own MAC I.D. and exclusive IP address, and it's own server software running thus not necessarily needing a PC/Mac to constantly supervise it. 
(d) Strangely, my iPod which is def older than 5th gen, plays beautifully through the front Usb of the Uniti2.
(d) I found ripping using XLD worked very well, but awfully slow (I went for, what looked to me to be conservative preferences, probably not required). Hence the thoughts of VortexBox and it's ilk, all the way to UnitiServe. Could anyone give a pointer to a tutorial on ripping settings please?

 

Way past my bedtime folks.

 

Regards All.

 

skipper.

 

ps: this carried on from Jason seeking clarification about what HD was being used for what purpose:

 

Jason,

Currently, the external WD 1 TB "My Passport" HD is purely to store and stream my music files, and the Time Capsule internal HD is used for apple's Time Machine backup for our personal computers. I am using this setup purely as a 'proof of concept' (= get up and running) setup. This has worked, but is erratic in the initialization time required as it is unusable unless the server software on my laptop is made available.

 

Hope that clarifies.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by skipper44
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Hi Skipper, there are good range extenders for reasonable money, but unless you have thick walls I MIMO wireless router should provide good range.. Just best to keep it high up with as little clutter and metal around or near it.

Simon

Simon, I have a v similar outlook as your's re extenders, and agree that proper placement of the router can make astounding differences leading to good wifi reception, especially in most home venues. Was simply curious about Solid Air's view that ethernet cable with Uniti at one end and extender at the other constituted a wired connection. Also, I guess the cost of an extender is not an issue when we're talking reasonably hi end hifi.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by glasgowbernardo
Splendid. Fine suggestions, one and all. I was mostly struck by simon-in-suffolk's 'keep it simple' chat. I've elected to buy an optical drive for the mac, and a UPnP enabled Synology NAS, and see what happens before making any costly blunders. Many thanks. Big help.
Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Jasonf

Thanks for the clarification Skipper, you seem to be well on your way to discovering audio nirvana.

 

Jason.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by skipper44
Originally Posted by Jasonf:

Thanks for the clarification Skipper, you seem to be well on your way to discovering audio nirvana.

 

Jason.

O how I yearn to get home and listen. Music, any music. Too much pleasure.

Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Solid Air
To answer the earlier question and Simon's comments . . .

I have a Netgear router In my office with no hifi attached (sadly). I have a UQ in the lounge. Near that I have another Netgear box that I would describe as a wifi extender. The wifi extender connects to the router via wifi. Both the NAS and the UQ connect by Ethernet to the wifi extender. That means the UQ is wire connected to the NAS via the extender - no wifi between the two at all. There is a wifi connection to get iRadio, but it's been perfect so far.

Not necessarily recommending it because it may not be right for others, but for me it's worked well so far.
Posted on: 13 November 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi Skipper, well NAS means networked attached storage in consumer land (Network Authentication Server in IT land).. a network can be made using many techniques such as TCP/IP or USB  etc...  Clearly the former is more flexible than the latter but they are both used to create networks.. so yes an attached USB disk can be considered network attached storage.

As far as  uPNP server, there are a growing number, and they really are the dominant component in defining your browsing and streaming experience. I really do like Asser, as it is so configurable with its directories and navigation options...really important for large collections.

Asset has been ported to the Pi in beta form. Works well apart from some issues with NAS mounts using CIFS which I am waiting for Mr Spoon to look at.

Simon

 

 

Posted on: 14 November 2013 by Stephen Pritchard

Hi Simon

I'm interested in the Raspberry Pi option ... now I've just heard of Raspberry Fi (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/4817)

I can't find anything on this forum about it - have you any pointers?

Posted on: 14 November 2013 by charlesphoto
Bernardo,
 
I would highly recommend looking at a Vortexbox before the Synology. Like Wat said these type of enclosures are noisy (they're really made as small office servers) and the VB's are purpose built for ripping/storing/streaming music. I'm a photographer and have an array much like a Synology and unless you can store it away from the listening environment the noise will drive you crazy. Plus being a Uniti owner you must understand the joy of the all-in-one box which the VB is. Honestly, I have no connection to the company! It's just that I was in the same boat as you were a month ago and now have 8 drawers worth of cds in a little black box and have never enjoyed music as much as I do now with my two little black boxes (UQ and VB). Plus the VB can automatically run off MP3's or ALAC's from the FLAC's so you can use them elsewhere. 
 
It also helped that I had an old iPhone around which I use for nStream. 
 
 
Originally Posted by glasgowbernardo:
Splendid. Fine suggestions, one and all. I was mostly struck by simon-in-suffolk's 'keep it simple' chat. I've elected to buy an optical drive for the mac, and a UPnP enabled Synology NAS, and see what happens before making any costly blunders. Many thanks. Big help.

 

Posted on: 14 November 2013 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Stephen, there are several builds of Raspberry Pi for 'audio' apps now. But I prefer to use the standard Linux Debian build and install my own applications.

Asset for the Raspberry Pi can be obtained from dbpoweramp beta page on their web site.

i am having a little difficulty with certain shares with the build currently, but MrSpoon is looking at it I believe. I have also used minidlna, but not with wave files.

But when I use the Pi with with either minidlna with shares or Asset with local files, it streams beautifully into my Naim under  Nstream control. Not bad for approx £30 

Simon

 

Posted on: 14 November 2013 by glasgowbernardo
Charlesphoto, et al

Good point.  Increasingly, I prefer things that do a specific job well: it may well be that a noisy office manager is not what I  need.
This vortexbox business....Look good. Nae raff.
2 questions: presumably this physically links to the hifi unit which is a good thing, but do these boxes make a noise/ rattle during playback?
Do they need to link physically/wirelessly to a router, or do they do the network job stand alone?
I guess a third question would be, once committed to getting an all in one ripper, what made you choose the VB? Does the unitiserve offer any advantages? Is this a straightforward cost vs style (although I actually think vortexbox looks the business) thing? These boxes seem to resemble computers, and I wonder if a larger cost translates to improved sound quality?
Grateful for any advice. Excited.
Posted on: 14 November 2013 by charlesphoto

Essentially the Vortexbox is a NAS that also has the ability to rip cd's and yes, acts like a mini computer albeit neutered down just for the one purpose of ripping, storing and sending audio files.

 

The Vortexbox connects via ethernet cable to a switch (or a router). The Uniti would also connect to said switch or router (if a switch that would then connect to router or modem). USB ports on the back to connect a backup drive. One can play from a VB but the sound quality wouldn't be so hot - best to stream to a Uniti player. 

 

The VB is controlled via web browser on mac or windows. It can also be trouble shot in Linux with a display hooked up but most users won't ever have to worry about that. The files themselves are accessed via samba share over your network (with a mac 'go to server' in finder). 

 

The only advantage of the VB over the Unitiserve is the ability to save over $3000! Otherwise both work pretty much the same I guess, and I'm sure sound the same. Different ethernet cord might make a difference but that's up for discussion, and of course the pixie dust that the Naim emanates makes it sound much much better . That's a lot of other gear or cds (or savings or whatever) for a box that sends out ones and zeros to only be processed by a DAC down the line (which is where the difference in sound quality starts). I'm sure the Naim is built like a tank, great warranty, less vibrations to the drive, etc but they don't build their own hard drives which is probably the most likely thing to fail in either (and high end gear can fail just as easily as low, sometimes even more so from my experience with Leicas!). There's the possibility the Naim may rip faster and more accurate (?), but saying it will sound better than other NAS's is like saying the photos I store on my internal SSD drive look better than the ones stored on my external WD black drives. Most would say I'm crazy!

 

Hope this helps. Plenty of good info on the Vortexbox info wiki and a great community online to help.