University of Cambridge

Prices for UK students and overseas students are different methinks. Check the small print. Whenever I hear or read about Gonville & Caius (pronounced 'keys') I think of the film 'Chariots of Fire' - good film well worth watching although no doubt things have changed there since the early 1920s. 

The experience for a student at either Oxford or Cambridge is remarkable. I was lucky enough to attend Oxford for a year, later in my career, and it was truly a wonderful experience. Hard work, though. I would encourage anyone to go overseas for education, and Oxford/Cambridge are two of the top choices.

If Cambridge doesn't pan-out then I'd highly recommend The University of Chicago.  It has one of the worlds best Mathematics departments and is a really fun place to spend four years.

Another alternative would be Imperial College in London, whose reputation for certain sciences and branches of mathematics exceeds even that of Oxbridge.

I've no idea what college in the US costs, but I do know that all UK universities charge more for overseas students than domestic ones.

Agreed.  There are overseas surcharges.   I still think it is cheaper than many places in the US.   Clearly not half as much.   It will be interesting to see what they charge for dinner, beer, and other out of pockets.

Does anybody have any recommendations about places to stay or go while in the area?  It will be a quick trip but we should have time for an overnight,  a day of sightseeing and dinner.

Why not the Fitzwilliam? Not a science museum, but very good. Kettle's Yard is a lovely gallery in a wonderful setting.

The Whipple is a great little museum of the history of science. Your lad - and you - will love it. They have a super collection of astronomical and scientific instruments.

As for somewhere to stay, what's your budget?

And if you're a Floyd fan Skip, you should go for a stroll in Grantchester Meadows by the Cam, where Dave Gilmour grew up and the subject of a ditty by Roger Waters.

Given that the trip is going to cost you anyway, you could splash out the extra for a meal at Midsummer House, one of the best restaurants in the whole UK (2 Michelin stars). It is a fantastic gastronomic experience, but comes at a price, and you would definitely need to book.

Can't say I speak from personal experience, but an education at Cambridge or Oxford seems to be valuable beyond price in many respects, and no wonder your son is excited by the possibility. If it really is less expensive than a degree in the States, then it surely must be worth pursuing. Bon chance, and well done to him for getting an interview.

Oxford and Cambridge have the names but there are plenty of other UK universities which offer great Maths and science courses but not the collegiate approach to tutoring which is unique to Oxbridge. Check out the on-line course prospectuses: he should choose the specialisms that are right for him.

St Andrews has great tuition, but a different approach. 3rd oldest university in the world, first university in Scotland and gives you 4 years of study, also to a more advanced level. I have a friend who majored there in Physics who went to Cambridge to prepare for his PhD in quantum research only to discover that he had been trained beyond what first year postgrads were learning there. he ended up teaching on the course and then taking his PhD thesis to Southampton. How important is location or surroundings to him? I've always found medieval architecture to be highly conducive to focused study and a sense of wellbeing.

Well...

Nothing to do with me living in Cambridgeshire...

Hi Skip, 

As said, a great place to study with the finest concentration of some of the finest English architecture  in Britain, from late Saxon to modern, all in a very compact City and only 50 minutes by train to London.

I lived there for 10 years and completed my Architectural studies there. It is also a very green City with lite o's parks in the centre and an emphasis on cycling and walking.

Here are My Top Ten, which some echo Kevin's suggestions.

1. Punting.

I always recommend to people to go Punting twice. The first time you should hire a punt and a punter who will punt for you and also give you a guided talk of the history of the Colleges along the 'Backs' as its called. The Backs are effectively the gardens and backs of the Colleges that front the main street, the river Cam runs along the back of the Colleges and so it is here that you will glide past the history of the University in quiet serene romantic bliss while the poffessional punter does all the hard work. Also at this point you can study the punters technique for when you decide to hire a punt and do the punting yourself later in the week...i.e. punt no. two. I suggest that you hire the punt from Scudemores outside the Anchor pub as when you return, you can treat yourself to a nice cold beer on the terrace and watch all the unfortunates punt themselves into oblivian and eat Cam  

2. Anchor Pub.

See above.

3. Fitswilliam Museum.

Quite a remarkable museum for such a small city. It is owned by the University...paintings, drawings and old artifacts from Asia. The building is a little larger than the Nasjional Museum here in Oslo so its will not take all day to see it just two or three of hours, well worth a visit. Then after that you can pop over to the famous fish restaurant across the road from the Museum, called Loch Fyne.

4. Loch Fyne. 

Either eat lunch or dinner in this fish restaurant. Oysters, Smoked Mussels, Mackeral, Squid,  Salmon etc. fished sourced from mainly Scotland and rest of UK here you can also indulge in your favouritye Whiskey and/or Port.

5. Kings College Chapel.

King's College Chapel is a splendid example of late Gothic (Perpendicular) architecture. It was started in 1446 by Henry VI (1421-71) and took over a century to build. It has the largest fan vault in the world and some of the finest medieval stained glass. You can visit during the day and if you are lucky you can here some evening choir sessions, quite stunning interior. Then treat yourself to some fudge across the road.

6. Fudge Shop (if you have a very sweet tooth).

7. The Eagle Pub.

Originally opened in 1667, and is known as the RAF pub as it has grafitti on the ceiling from RAF airmen. Also where Crick and Watson used to drink and have lunch and where the announcemnt that DNA was discovered was first spoken. Opposite the pub is the oldest standing building in Cambridge the Saxon period St Benets Church.

8. Kettles Yard.

One of Britians finest low key galleries, a unique house with distinctive collection of 20^th Century Art and gallery exhibiting contemporary and modern art. The old house was a private house which is also very fascinating.

9. Granchester Orchard. 

Granshester is a village outside Cambridge to the south. From The Mill Pond (next to the Anchor Pub and Scudamores punt hire) one can follow the river Cam for about 45mins through various pootpaths than hug the river untill your reach Granchester, then just walk up 90 degs away from the river and into the Orchard. Here is a public cafe that sells food and drink but importantly the hallowed Clotted Cream...i.e. the 'best' clotted cream and scones in the World. Grab a scone each (they are large) a pot of clotted cream, a pot of jam and a pot of tea and go find some deck chairs under the apple trees and eat clotted cream. Also this is a good place to chill with a newspaper or book for a couple of hours, then walk back along the river to Cambridge. you may see some punters along this stretch of the Cam, some may have stopped along the river for picnic. When you get really good at punting you can hire a punt and go out of Cambridge, take a picnic and a bottle of wine and stop somewhere along the Cam to eat...the ladies love that  

10. Scott Polar Museum.

The Scott Polar Institute of Cambridge also holds the Scott Polar Museum...here you can just gloat

I also second RodwSmith's restaurant suggestion.

That should be enough to get you going. My other suggestion is to just walk about, it really is quite a small City. It has a less urban feel than Oxford due to an open, green planning approach.

Anyway, if you are coming this far, I would also suggest taking a week so that you guys can take in the delights of London too And kill to birds with one stone. Also, if your son feels that Cambridge can feel a little small, he will know how easy it is to get some proper hedonism in the 'Old Smokey'.

Jason.

Back on track Skip. Well done to your son for getting to the interview stage. We went through this with my son 5 years ago. The only thing to say is that the interviews tend not to be subject related but more psychometric, testing reasoning and rationality. It's a beautiful place to go to University and the degree is obviously held in high regard. The terms at Cambridge and Oxford are shorter than other UK Universities, but that may work out better, coming from the US.

My son surprisingly decided to go to Bath instead to read Economics as they had a placement programme. It worked out well for him as he did the placement with Goldman Sachs who gave him an unconditional offer of a job. He went back to Bath and gained a 1st. He's now doing very well at GS over the last 18 months. 

Good luck to your son.

Steve

If you want interview advice, I have tonnes: I've taught in several independent schools, who are - rightly or wrongly - always eager to boast about how many Oxbridge successes they get each year. I've prepared a few pupils each year for their interviews in science/maths/engineering. Will put my work email address in my profile so you can contact me off-forum and I can reply with some attachments.

The atmosphere at both 'ancient' Universities is just fabulous. You are working in a highly competitive environment but encouraged to push yourself as hard as you can in any and every direction, including sporting and other extramural activities. I think the fact that they're residential, at undergrad level at least, makes for an even more intense - usually in a positive way - experience. The history and architecture is simply a cracking bit of cake-icing on top.

I know many other 'top' UK universities are extremely good in many areas, but being world-class in almost every subject and not far behind in extra-curricular activities is a combination many can realistically compete with.

Mark

Thanks for the help everybody.

Jason, thanks for the comprehensive to-do list. Jason and Kevin, thanks for the recommendations.

Mark, thank you for the generous offer.   I sent an email to your office.

This should be a great adventure for him.

Hmmm. Not convinced coaching a student for an interview is the right thing to do. If the sole aim is to get into Cambridge, it obviously is. However, the test/interview is there for a reason, to ascertain if the student is capable of completing the course.

As Steve pointed out the terms are only 8 weeks, you may find that at the end of each trimester your son will either have to clear his room of his belongings and place in storage or pay additional rent on a daily basis. That could cost an additional 2.5k.

Hope he does well at the interview, I'm sure he'd enjoy himself at Cambridge, like living in a stately home, but without the large rooms and fine furnishings.

I was (extremely) lucky to attend Caius in the 70s, when as has been said, British students qualified for grants (though my parents contributed a substantial amount). Winning some kind of award would help too.

The staff at Caius were phenomenal then and I've no doubt are now. Specialisms over the centuries have been medicine and the sciences but certainly then there were first-rate arts teachers. Like the other colleges, Caius will concentrate on supervised work within the college and I happen to know that one of the current science supervisors is an extremely helpful man (better not give a name)! Stephen Hawking had just moved into Caius at the time and I think is still connected.

One thing which has apparently improved a lot at Caius is the music, so if he's any way inclined towards that he should find plenty to enjoy. Lovely place to be a student, nice rooms both sides of the river, great dining hall, excellent library, easy access to town (it's in the centre of the centre), though many of the science labs are a bike ride away.

Hi Salmon Dave,

I had to present an Interior Design proposal to the great Steven Hawking as my office was renovating a student common room and converting it to a seminar room, but this was in the Centre for Mathematical Sciences which is a modern building built quite recently.

Skip, hopefully your son will get the opportunity to listen to one of Steven Hawking's rare presentations, he is a funny chap with a dry wit.

Here's a view of the Centre for Mathematical Sciences, it's about 10-15 minutes cycle from the centre. Its surrounded by Cricket and a Rugby fields. Also, while we are on the topic of sport, it was here that the formal football rules were first penned, known as the Cambridge Rules and subsequently adopted by the Football Association of England and Wales in 1863.

Jason.

Cynic's answer: with parents paying up to £30k per year to go to an independent school, what do you think they're paying for, if not an unfair advantage?

Slightly more even-handed answer: giving a pupil some questions which are examples of the sort of thing they will face at interview, especially when they may not have been terribly intellectually challenged by the average A-level (or equivalent) questions doesn't really count as coaching. It's just helping them see what sort of standard might be expected so they don't get a nasty shock when they'll already be a bit on edge in an interview situation and help them give it their best shot.

In reality: the interview method at Oxford and Cambridge is, in my experience, pretty even-handed. Having kept an eye on the subsequent progress of those I've 'coached' (your words, not mine), I've never known a pupil get in who I thought didn't deserve a place, and I don't know of a single one who did get in who didn't go on to complete the course and do (at least) quite well. There have been a few who didn't get in who I think probably would have done OK, but that's because they don't have enough places for those who deserve them.

Mark