Cameron

Don't know if he did or not but everyone makes mistakes...

Mandela himslef and the ANC advocated violent 'struggle' and started a bombing campaign in SA. Tony Blair thought we'd find some mighty WMDs in the desert. George W made a career out of making them. Twice. Large parts of France thought the Fascists had the right idea...

Yes but he is a politician, bless 'em,

Subtle difference between them & normal human beings is they lean according to whatever their party line is and some of the dark corners of the tory party continued living the Thatcher legacy line over SA for some time after Mandela was elected president. 

During 80's thru to mid 2000's I was travelling frequently & living for a short period in S.A. & saw apartheid & the crazy politics that were wrapped around that first hand.   Reading & watching the news from home I frequently wished Thatcher & her kind would at least come down here & see it for themselves before uttering such crap.

It was a lesson to me at the time that politicians of all persuasions hold a dogmatic blinkered line on this kind of thing & I guess many have since regretted some things they said or did.  (Dare I mention Blair & Gaddafi)   

At that time no matter what fraction of the many political persuasions in SA, all parties held the line no matter how radical, outdated, relevant or absurd. The Tory's at the time seemed to me to be living in a detached little islander world in the northern hemisphere;  I believe it quite obvious they were feed a line by UK/SA big business lobbying who at the time were scared sh1tless that the ANC would bring in black socialism of the Mogabe brand that included land & business grabbing nationalisation.

The change of attitude in white managed business after Mandela & the ANC found their feet was remarkable,  I guess that influenced the Tory line.

Mandela did advocate a bombing campaign but he and the ANC made sure there were no victims. They would inform the government about the bombing in plenty time to make sure no-one got hurt. He also claimed that he would die for his beliefs but what makes it so amazing is the fact that he didn't want to kill for them. I feel that the only terrorists were the ones that controlled apartheid, controlling and abusing the indiginous people. I would recommend everybody to read Nelson Mandela's biography to get a true measure of this giant of a man.

Don't know if he did or not but everyone makes mistakes  ???

He had one of the best educations this country could offer which should lead to  questioning everything. I very much doubt he has this ability so an education wasted then.

There is a theory that tories hate themselves for what they are so in turn hate everybody else because they think they are similar.

The world is full of educated people who make mistakes.

The world also has plenty of educated people who change their mind. Sometimes you know, quite frequently. 

Perhaps as a result of questioning what they've been told peviously.

It also has a fair smattering of people who are quite dim.

Some people can just never forget, whether it's families of French or Dutch citizens killed by British bombing in the war, relatives of those on all sides killed in 'The Troubles' around N.I. and so on...

Some people just remain bitter about that which they don't like and will never change their minds about an issue, whatever the situation presented to them...

A person, South African I'm guessing white posting on a blog I was reading was saying Mandela is damaged by the ANC attacks and things like "necklacing". I don't know how much that was sanctioned by the official ANC though, my knowledge of what actually happened in SA was via state controlled media feeds mainly.

Call me dave might have taken the opportunity to apologise for his previous views, but then he is a politician, so gets to edit history.

Mandela admitted to crimes of terrorism and was rightly imprisoned for it. He then went on to become a statesman and soon, no doubt, a saint?????

Aren't they still?

As the old saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. What would you have done, if you and your people were subjugated, threatened, persecuted, tortured and killed, often without reason and no way out? Taken the beating, laid over and died? The apartheid regime of SA was a terrorist state and the indigenous people of South Africa had all the rights in the world to rebel against it, even by violent means.

IMHO he was not rightly imprisoned at all.

What utter - and ill-informed -  garbage. At the Rivonia trial Mandela was charged with sabotage - which he admitted - and initiating guerilla warfare against the apartheid government. The latter charge he denied.

Terrorists can commit sabotage, but not every act of sabotage is an act of terrorism.

I think you will find yourself in some very dubious company if you persist in your bizarre belief that the life sentence visited on Mandela and his co-defendents was "right".

The Right - and the Tories - have always been pretty brazen in their hypocrisy so I'm not really surprised.

The boorish Federation of Conservative Students - hilariously disbanded in 1986 by Norman Tebbit for extremism - was famous for its use of "Hang Nelson Mandela" slogans counted at least one prominent Tory politician among its rancid ranks.

No comment...

Briefly watching the memorial yesterday, seemed to me to be a bit of mess. Would not have been more poignant if it took place in a Cathedral or something more fitting the occasion?

Also what a golden opportunity missed yesterday. All those politicians in one place, we could have locked the doors and thrown away the key!

I have always felt this way about the First Nation people of North America and the indigenous people of Australia. I think its only their relatively small numbers that prevent it.

What I love about all these pics of the now-infamous "selfie" is Michelle Obama's face - it's like thunder!

Look at her here:

Apparently she had to site between the Danish Statsminister and the US President to stop them flirting!

What is awful is 'Dave' desperately leaning in..... Like some unwanted younger brother trying to get in on your act.

'Here's 20p. Go and get yourself a Cream Egg'.......as we used to say.

G

Here in denmark the media are going of bananas over this. With Helle T. being a blond and other "incidents" in here career, the one-liners simply que up and the press can't resist bringing all of them.

Personally I couldn't care less. I don't think she's a particularly good leader, but this doesn't add or subtract anything to that.

Some reasonable explanations putting the incident into context also appearing now - among those statements from the photographer and Helle T. It all smells of nothing, to me.

Especially amongst the younger generation contemplating whether going to university is still a viable option for them... 

Was that before or after he told everyone austerity was here to stay?

Oh, the irony !

http://www.theguardian.com/pol...-caption-competition

Anyway - the thread is about Cameron so I think I'll sign of with this one:

Finally we agree on something Don. 

Not all is lost, it seems! 

Anyway, regarding the Danish Staatsminister Birgitte Nyborg would get my vote any day  (if I was Danish that is!)

How very dare you! Leave me out of it, you dirty old hi-fi man.

Yours, in anticipation of tomorrow's last-ever episode

BN

It will be a sad day tomorrow Kevin-W...

Think I hijacked this thread - we should be on the Borgen thread but I couldnt resist it when I saw the pictures this week.

Birgitte would never behave like that!