NDS - Wi-Fi or Ethernet?
Posted by: AMA on 16 December 2013
A question to NDS users.
Did you try between the two and find any difference?
No. Wired from day one because the wiring was already installed. I have since put a wireless extender in the lounge because the signal to the iPad was weak and nStream (among other apps) could be unresponsive. It's now fast and snappy. It has never occurred to me to try the NDS wireless. The question to my self would be, why would I? have you heard a difference?
The question to my self would be, why would I? have you heard a difference?
I don't have NDS but I would be using Wi-Fi instead of wires if the SQ is the same.
It has been stated on numerous occasions here that wired sounds better than Wi-Fi with Naim streaming products, but perhaps not specifically with NDS.
This said, although it makes some sense not to use Wi-Fi directly on such a high-end streamer in order to keep it as less busy as possible for maximum sound quality, I wonder if a possibility would be to use a Wi-Fi bridge. It would deport the Wi-Fi duties to an external box, which would be wired to the NDS through Ethernet.
That would be nice for those -- like me -- who don't have long in-wall cabling, but I don't know if 802.11ac troughput is enough for high-resolution 24/192 without dropouts. And it would bring another cheap SMPS near the streamer (although linear supplies do exist for such devices), so it depends probably on the mains configuration. I guess it would be some sort of compromise anyway.
Provided the throughput is sufficient, a Wi-Fi bridge with a linear power-supply could be an interesting solution if one needs to avoid long Ethernet cables.
Are you finally going to audition the NDS AMA ?
I thought you did have the NDS sorry.
I use a non Naim wireless streamer in my office. The stream can drop out on occasion and this is very irritating, but for casual background use it works well 99% of the time. I wouldn't know about absolute sound quality because I'm not comparing like with like.
I can confirm that for me at least, a wireless bridge works reliably. I had a Buffalo bridge in the lounge with NDX and NAS wired to it. Later it was NDS, HDX and NAS. It all worked perfectly. The devices use network protocol to communicate but they were not utelising wireless to do so. The only wireless functions were CD look up when ripping and iRadio. Both worked fine.
About 6 months back I got a new hub. It would not communicate with the bridge. So I ran a wire into my office ceiling, pulled up the upstairs floor, ran a cable along the length of the house (well, width actually) and dropped the cable into the lounge above the system. It took a week end but everything went according to plan. The functionality of the wired system and its apparent performance is no different from when I ran it with a wireless bridge.
Having a cable into the lounge has allowed other benefits. All my video AV equipment which can be networked is now on it and I was also able to convert my old hub to a wireless repeater so that I have a strong and reliable WiFi signal in the lounge.
Using Naim streamers, I have never heard a wireless connection sound better than a wired one. I have often heard a wired one sound significantly better than a wireless one. Sometimes I have heard both types sound the same, usually on restricted services such as internet radio if I recall correctly.
If you intend to listen critically to your streamer, then use the wired connection.
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
This is an interesting question - certainly technically there are advantages and disadvantages to using wifi over wired Ethernet.
In a 100Mbps Ethernet link, the line frequency is 25MHz. This frequency is closer to the clock frequencies of the DAC clocks and SPDIF line speed clocks. Therefore I could see such clocks closely linked to each other could affect each other.
The Wifi core carrier frequency is many many multiples higher than the DAC clocks and so less likely to impact these DAC clocks.
Ultimately the proof is in the listening - but I wouldn't discount wifi on the belief it should automatically sound worse than wired ethernet. I simply don't see its that straightforward.
Simon
Doesn't matter ...the NDS is by far the best freakin source you can buy:-) get it play with it love it!
...and if neither lan nor wifi works plug in a usb stick/ drive and enjoy your music
ralf
Ralf - actually in my experience the NDS has not the crown of the Naim digital sources - its very good - but not the best IMO for total music enjoyment. Kind of irrelevant to the message of wifi / wired ethernet though.
Simon
Simon, you are right ! my comment was rather like " heee, with a NDS you'll play in the killer league...so you shouldn't care about wav or flac, cables, wifi or lan or such things.." Just enjoy!
I don' t want to be rude here,but the NDS brought out really something in my way of listening music...
add on to the OP: LAN did it for me (more reliable in my house!)
ralf
Fully wired here. I've not tried either the NDS or Qute via wi fi.
Absolutely correct.
The mythology around the blanket superiority of wired is born from the days when wireless was unreliable and had poor throughput. Given this and the other dimensions to consider in a comparison in any specific case, we cannot simply say one is better than the other.
This is an interesting question - certainly technically there are advantages and disadvantages to using wifi over wired Ethernet.
In a 100Mbps Ethernet link, the line frequency is 25MHz. This frequency is closer to the clock frequencies of the DAC clocks and SPDIF line speed clocks. Therefore I could see such clocks closely linked to each other could affect each other.
The Wifi core carrier frequency is many many multiples higher than the DAC clocks and so less likely to impact these DAC clocks.
Ultimately the proof is in the listening - but I wouldn't discount wifi on the belief it should automatically sound worse than wired ethernet. I simply don't see its that straightforward.
Simon
Simon,
Could another advantage of wireless be the lack of a physical electrical connection ?
Jan-Erik, potentially yes - yet Wifi clearly uses a radio transmitter and receiver with its own RF amp and local oscillators, so not without its challenges either.
Simon
Ralf - actually in my experience the NDS has not the crown of the Naim digital sources - its very good - but not the best IMO
+1
Qute is fine over wireless. Still prefer DAC to NDS. And i wonder of the DAC that is yet to come. That digital out on the NDS is just waiting for that MOAD upgrade. I wonder how that combo will match up to the KDS.
MOAD ?
IMHO Naim will not launch a new DAC...I think they'll go for Preamp-Streamers first...
AMA, if you are considering an NDS, you need to consider a wired connection. IMO absolutely no 'if's and but's' - anything you like as long as it's a wired connection.
Wireless is still significantly less reliable than wired for your network; it's pretty certain that sooner or later you'll hear the effects of a wireless connection breaking down. It's wireless, that's what it does, it gets interferred with !
Have I tried wireless with my NDS? - no. Have I tried wireless with my Qute? - yes.
Is there a difference in reliability? - for certain.
Is there a difference in SQ? - (on the Qute) no, not UNTIL the wireless network connection starts failing intermittantly, then it's worse than useless.
I'd be very sceptical about anyone telling me their wireless network never gives them any problems !
If you haven't got a wired connection in your music room (wherever that may be), then add a few smakeroos to your NDS budget and get one installed. You know it makes sense 
Wake up James ! The Mother of All DACs
I'll wait for the subsequent MOAS or possibly the MOAPAS.
It begs for a MOMAS&POPAS ! 
Exploding sausage indeed... all these acronyms need recycling into something more seasonal (to the tune of Jingle Bells):
USB, PCM, who loves DSD?
Vortexbox or MACnDAC,
Streaming's not for me, oh !
NDS, 555, UD-501,
Cinnamony Ethernet
And the turkey must be done.
I apologise for omitting to say in my earlier post, that I was kind of assuming that if you're running an NDS then quite a bit of what you're going to be playing is going to be hi-res (96 / 192 etc).... and hi-res and wireless really don't go well together.
Jan-Erik seems to have nailed it !!
Wat,
Contrarily to the Naim servers that run on Windows XP Embedded, the Naim streamers do not run Windows. My understanding is that they're based on an embedded development platform called JukeBlox that runs on ARM-based modules and an embedded real-time operating system called ThreadX, with heavy customization from Naim.
Indeed, the streamers run their own microcontroller code- there are no high level operating systems like Windows/OSX and such like.