Problems with UK National Health? Inquiring Yank Wants to Know.

The NHS is frequently a shambles. It is often appallingly managed. Occasionally the treatment meted out to patients is shocking. Everyone in Britain knows this.

But it is equally, and just as often, first rate. Most British people are proud of the NHS.

The story you cite was widely reported last week by all the papers and the BBC. We tend to get a few of them every year. The NHS employs nearly one and a half million people and has an annual budget of just under £130 billion - it is a vast undertaking and errors do occur.

What is your agenda here? Trying to stir up trouble again?

This is one for the Docs that use this M/B to get stuck into.

You should get a reply from them much later today.

Mista h

The NHS is a bottomless pit regarding cost, Labour had tried to get it back on track when they were in power by increasing the amount of money going in but they took over from a tory legacy where they were trying to discredit the NHS and had reduced the amount of money going into the pot. Most people are very proud of the NHS, me included as I have had dealings with them and I was very impressed. The tories want something similar to the US but if that happens the poorest people will suffer as always when a tory government is in place. The tories again have reduced the amount of money going into the NHS and then all the negative stories are reported again and again. If the NHS ever closes it will be down to two things, 1; The tories  2; the gullibility of the masses in believing the trash that the tories and the press spin.

The Daily Mail is a bile filled hate rag of no value or credence whatsoever.

I usually find the subtly nuanced arguments of this very helpful website to be instructive:

www.shouldireadthedailymail.com

You may enjoy this Rod:

Click

Honestly the Daily Mail does not deserve a detailed response. My perceptions of the NHS will of course be different to those 'users' so i'll keep my powder dry. The current agenda from central govt is anti-GP and is being pursued through every conceivable avenue as they line us up for the next wave of reform. The Mail's histotry of reporting on any and all health issues is shameful.

Three simple points.

The NHS is not a bottomless money pit-modern healthcare is. We spend considerably less pro-rata than most developed countries but health inflation roars ahead. You can never have enough money in your healthcare system, you can always do more. Spending it wisely is another matter.

In surverys GPs remain amongst the most trusted of any professional-healthcare or otherwise. That has not materially changed. The recent 'maggot' story is just a joke if you look at the details. The inspection process identified just 1% or practices with significant failings out of an initial cohort deliberately chosen as they were considered to be at high risk. I reckon that is pretty decent.

Lastly the marketisation of the modern NHS was a Blairite policy. Some reports now suggest that private providers are actually dropping out oif NHS provision as the financial climate is less tempting to them. I'm no Tory lover but the damage done to the NHS by New Labour was very considerable so give them a decent share of the blame.

Take the politics out of the NHS and design the system and the funding without short term and competing political agendas I say.

Bruce

The damage done to the country - not just the NHS - by New Labour was considerable Bruce. Despite my impeccable () left wing credentials, I despise Blair, Mandelson et al more than I do Thatch.

Steady on!

I do detest Blair deeply though. His reponse to Mandela dying was to say how much he had learned from Mandela. As ever -all about him. Slippery, hypocritical and morally incoherent egotist. I detested Thatcher's policies but I guess she was at least honest about them!

Blair's govts also created the ridiculous tick box target culture that created so many perverese incentives, gaming and layers of management in the NHS we are still trying to unravel.

Bruce

+1 from me to what Kevin and Bruce said.

The Govt and press seem to have an agenda with the NHS ATM. The demands on the NHS has never been greater with an increase in the population and patient expectation. With improved technology we are now treating more conditions that would never have been contemplated before. 

From my own experience, hospitals are working flat out to provide, in general, a very good service given the limited resources. One always hears about the 1% of things that go wrong and rarely about the 99% that goes as it should. 

I feel that a lot of the problems we hear about regarding breaches in A&E depts could be addressed by dealing with the high numbers of patients who treat A&E depts as GP surgeries. 

For all the slagging off that the NHS gets it provides a very good service for the cost. Obviously there is, and always will be, room for improvement as in any organisation.

Rather a sweeping statement you make re; Daily mail, It often says what Joe public thinks and is afraid to say for him/herself. I don't agree with everything I read in it's pages, however often there is some truth too.

If it is as you claim, I don't think the Daily Mail would have as high a readership that it clearly does.

It is no worse than the Guardian , just the other side of the same coin.

Regarding the NHS, there seems to bee too many layers of management  and not enough shop floor staff. I recently needed a XRay. On attending my local NHS hospital there was a mix up over my address. I was made to feel that it was my fault that the hospital was still using my old address that I moved from 5 years back. I know I informed all concerned as I received a new NHS medical card in the mail, however on expressing this to the receptionist I was still made to feel that I had made the error. It is easy to see how mistakes happen when simple admin is not addressed when changes need to be applied.

I don’t take anything the Daily Mail (especially) publishes seriously.  Like many other UK papers, most of the crap they publish, especially when they are trying to sell more papers ….. oops sorry ….. to be our saviours & HM Gov moral guidance.  It isn’t worth the paper its smudged on. 

I do however feel the NHS is a pretty good system & it does work well most of the time & (IMO) it appears we only hear about the failures & shortcomings & nothing of the positives experiences of the many people who get the attention they need without it making the press headlines.   

My experience of the NHS is all positive, both with family & during the time I (we) used both NHS & private services.  Most outstanding was over the last 2 years when I had both knees replaced (PKR) at the excellent Nuffield Orthopaedic Centre in Oxford

Each op was 10 months apart,  the first was organised & the triage & pre-op process exactly per the book & the op itself text book. The 2nd op was exactly the same, pre-booked at the time of the first op & at the pre-op session the surgeon & I compared dairies for the best day for the op in the next 2 weeks. 

I fully accept the NHS is not perfect,  but for goodness sake just try the health services in other parts of the world & see how they work;  I was kept waiting for a very long 5 hours in Brussels, told to come back tomorrow in Spain & I have a who is going to pay story with a broken toe in USA.  But like I said, we can all find stories on the bad stuff,  its easy to overlook when it goes right.  

Like Mike, I have had cause to use the NHS and each time the experience has been positive.

Back in 1986, I was involved in a fight in a pub and was whacked around the face with a heavy glass ashtray, leading to a broken nose, jaw and cheekbone/eye socket. The treatment I got in both the emergency room and in the three subsequent operations was nothing short of superb.

In 1988 I contracted pneumonia and, after an examination and overnight stay I was discharged and prescribed ampicillin - unfortunately I had a severe allergic reaction to it and nearly died - but the treatment I got from the NHS was swift, efficient and effective.

This was the case again in 2010, when I had a heart murmur.

One of the great things about the NHS is that when you, or your loved ones, fall ill, you do not have the extra worry of wondering how you're going to pay for treatment, if you're covered or who's gong to pay for it.

By the way Russ NHS stands for National Health Service, not "System". There is a big difference between the two words, in both intent and meaning.

I've had 2 close friends rely on the very best medical care (just their) money didn't have to buy. One developed necrotising fasciitis and was in the Whittington (where they put all the Dick's I told him) for 8 weeks, 4 of which were on life support with then exemplary follow-up plastic surgery.

The second is still in hospital after developing acute necrotising pancreatitis which (we dearly hope) he is slowly coming through since hospitalisation in early August. I reckon he has another month 'inside' to go yet.

In each case I've had nothing but immense respect for the consultants, registrars and most of the nursing staff who have treated and cared for my friends. Yes, there's the odd night shift who have been less than stellar, slack even, but they have been in the extreme minority.

G

Spot on with the above remark Kevin. Do hope your fight didn`t spoil your good looks.

What narks me with our NHS is people from abroad come to the UK,get treated at one of our hospitals,run up HUGE bills and then sod off back home without paying. I aint joking when i say that if i was running the NHS i would put at stop to that pdq. In would be money up front or p155 off,no messing. I think many people overseas look upon us as mugs and it needs to stop.

Mista h

At it again Mista h I see.

Any statistics on the extent of the "problem"? How much do you think is it costing you?

Rant time

Stand back

Often we talk about the NHS and discuss operations and hospitals

90% NHS activity is in Primary Care. That is your GP and the other services in the community. Demand in Primary Care is exploding for a huge number of reasons; greater complexity, more elderly, more sick people, more social and financial pressures for people to get immediate help, far more responsibilities handed back out of hospitals that would have been managed by them in the past, earlier discharges, a lower threshold for calling your doc and lost skills for self care.

Casualty is 'full' so apparently those people should also go back to their GP. You name it-it is our problem. Palliative care, keeping old people out of hospital, counselling, writing letters for school because Johhny has a cold and missed his 11 plus, diagnosing cancers sooner, sorting athletes foot, picking up depression, vaccinating for flu and shingles, detecting child abuse, managing asthma and diabetes. Giving complex treatements, dressing ulcers, treating obesity and smoking. Training new GPs and now med students much of the time too. manging cmomissioning groups and purchasing secondary care services. All us.

Well we are getting full too-yet nobody ever seems to assume we have a limited capacity. We are apparently going to be (even) more responsible for ongoing continuity of care with elderly and complex patients yet also the place people must attend instead of casualty.

UK General Practice is really struggling just now, and morale is falling like a stone.

At my Practice we speak to all patients on the day who want to be seen urgently. Every single one who rings who wants an appointment on the day (or indeed just advice) gets a consultation on the phone with a GP within a short time of calling and will always be seen if needed. We handle 150-200 calls per day. As a result of seeing so many urgent cases my next routine appointment is in February, but our casualty attendances are down 8% this year. The hospital is pleased, we are on our knees. We cannot be all things to everyone, we cannot cover all hours and retain the continuity that is so much liked by patients and so important to good efficient medicine too. We cannot manage the blossoming administration work that accompanies the higher patient volumes-and we are a very organised practice with good staff in a propserous area full of generally stoic people.

Recruitment into GP has also started to drop, and no sign of any initiative to bring this up. Lots are retiring early-I'll be one as soon as I can and I love my job.

Resources must follow the work into Prinary Care. Not wages for me but bodies on the ground, premises and support staff.

If Primary Care reform does not happen it will indeed deterioate. Don't expect the work to reduce-it never does, we have to match the resource to the work-and the best place to handle it.

Hug your GP this Xmas.

Bruce

At what again???  explain yourself or shut up

Mista h

Careful you will be accused  of being a Daily Mail reader.

Dont remember the figures Winky,but a 2 page article a while back in one of our papers said it ran into millions. Why the hell should i or any other UK tax payer have to support these tossers even for £1.

Mista H

Steady Bruce or your blood pressure will go up again.

Mista H

Spot on Maze,would not buy any other paper,oh and i buy the Sun on the sabath.

Mista H

Re "Health Tourism" and the cost to taxpayers...

For the sake of balance and counter opinion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/l...britain-8902520.html

Regards

Jim

Dear All,

One way to stop people flying in to UK for NHS health care is :

If a passenger flies into UK and immediately goes to the emergency health services at the airport and is then transported to local Hopsital

BILL THE AIRLINE

They flew the passenger from country of origin so deemed passenger FIT TO FLY.

If the airlines get the bill then they will prevent Health Care Migrants getting on to the aircraft and travelling to this country to access our NHS.

Same with ferries and trains. if they allow a passenger to travel then they should pick up the tab.

David