Would you Adam and Eve it?!
Posted by: The Meerkat on 31 December 2013
Sorry about the rhyming slang 
Would you believe it?! The grief that I've had with Twonky on my Qnap NAS, over the past week doesn't bare thinking about, posting various topics about it, and some very late nights.
As always though, I've received some great advice from forum members. Thank you guys.
Even after re ripping some CDs to WAV with XLD, then entering all the tags, by typing in each track, artist, etc...it still comes up on the iPad as 'Unknown artist', and 'Unknown album'? FLAC is not a problem, the metadata is all there.
Today, just out of curiosity I downloaded Twonky for iMac on a 30 day trial. It plays all my iTunes library perfectly. And...If I click on the 'info' button on N-Stream, it displays the little booklet, containing heaps of information on the album and artist, perfectly. However, I don't really want to listen to MP3 files through my lovely Naim system, although it is a means to an end.
What is it with WAV and metadata? I'd dump it, but I think it sounds just fractionally better than FLAC, very, very close though.
What is it with WAV and metadata? I'd dump it, but I think it sounds just fractionally better than FLAC, very, very close though.
David, folks have been talking about the pro's and con's of wav for a while. There is no one industry standard way of putting metadata into wav files. If you want to keep ripping your own cd's but not on a UnitiServe, I really really recommend not ripping to wav. Rip to flac or Apple Lossless. Flac is probably most common.
Bart, I know what you're saying. I guess all I wanted, was to re rip my CDs to WAV, and for my ND5 XS be able to read all the data just as FLAC does. I've now come to the conclusion that that's not possible, at least not with my limited IT skills. 
I haven't tried ALAC as yet.
What I am interest to know, the guys that are using a Vortexbox to rip, what files are they ripping to?
What is it with WAV and metadata? I'd dump it, but I think it sounds just fractionally better than FLAC, very, very close though.
David, folks have been talking about the pro's and con's of wav for a while. There is no one industry standard way of putting metadata into wav files. If you want to keep ripping your own cd's but not on a UnitiServe, I really really recommend not ripping to wav. Rip to flac or Apple Lossless. Flac is probably most common.
Bart, I know what you're saying. I guess all I wanted, was to re rip my CDs to WAV, and for my ND5 XS be able to read all the data just as FLAC does. I've now come to the conclusion that that's not possible, at least not with my limited IT skills. I haven't tried ALAC as yet.
What I am interest to know, the guys that are using a Vortexbox to rip, what files are they ripping to?
Vortexbox uses FLAC By the way! http://www.vortexbox.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=438028
Thank you everyone for your detailed replies, you've been incredibly helpful. It has certainly helped me understand music files, and their structure.
So, as a very last attempt to get Twonky to behave it self, I ripped a CD by Keane, using XLD, with the output format to AIF. The 'info' button on N-Stream displays all you need to know about that album and the band perfectly. But, and wait for it...Twonky displays the tracks in alphabetical order, yet again! 
I think it's wine o'clock already Happy New Year!
Flac that.
Sloop...after a few glasses of wine, that's exactly how I would describe this matter! 
But check this out...I have just put 01, 02, etc before the track name on the XLD AIF rips, and to my shock, Twonky displays all the tracks in correct order with all metadata, irrespective whether I'm in Folder, Artist, or Album view.
The wine obviously did the trick!
You dont need to try ALAC, MP3, or any other lossy format. Stay lossless with AIFF, FLAC, or WAV. AIFF is my choice, because it works well with Mac and PC alike.
Nick...I think I'm getting a bit confused. I thought ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) was a lossless format, or is that just Apple's interpretation of it?
AIFF is apple's form of WAV
ALAC is apple's form of FLAC
AAC is apple's form of MP3
You see? Apple just don't want to conform to standards. There forms are just different, not better.
We call that "Vendor lock-in" and that's good .... for Apple's profits.
Hardly - only ALAC was proprietary - AIFF/AIF goes all the way back to the Amiga.
ALAC is now open source and AAC is no longer copy protected.
The jury is out over whether AAC is a better compressed codec at lower bit rates than mp3 - but to my ears they both sound rather crushed.
Tog
You are complete right Tog.
AIFF is definitely not a proprietary Apple format, nor is it Apple's version of WAV. In fact WAV implementations are proprietary and often lock you in because of the way metadata is handled. AIFF is and always has been an open standard. It is based on the original IFF format from EA developed for the Amiga computer.
AAC sounds better to me than MP3 if the bit rate is the same. I only use these formats if I am unable to get a lossless copy. Neither is format I like, but better than nothing.
ALAC is now open, but was an Apple format. ALAC can be converted to FLAC or AIFF without loss of metadata or sound quality. It can also be converted to WAV, but you may lose metadata, artwork, lyrics and ... Well I just avoid WAV.
If Naim had chosen AIFF rather than WAV then it would be much simpler to move files from a US to another UPnP server, but perhaps they didn't want to. Still now the US works with FLAC surely that will become the preferred route. This would make the need to use a proprietary Microsoft database a thing of the past. I was always disappointed Naim chose a proprietary Microsoft OS to create a closed system. However, I have always preferred open standards with open APIs even if I am predominantly an OS X user these days.
For me, the sound quality is the same whatever lossless format I use, but AIFF works really well. I think FLAC would work just as well if my home computing environment was not almost entirely Apple. Even if I had a PC I would not use WAV. I really don't see the need to store music as WAV as if you have a streamer that prefers music in WAV format then many UPnP servers can transcode on the fly. The only format that appears to promise better sound and I am able to play is DSD.
Personally, i like my system to just play music irrespective of format.
I really hope whatever format you use you can get it to display sensibly and play: music is much more important than formats or silly arguments between computer companies.
A very interesting and detailed insight to the various file formats. Thanks Wat...As you say, and most people would say, we are here for the music! And really, we are all playing for the same team. Who on earth would spend thousands of $ € £ on Hi Fi, if they didn't love music.
The good thing about this forum, is that it's quite educational. I didn't have a clue about streaming a year ago (Still don't ) but over the past few months I have gained a great deal of knowledge, provided by other forum members. Thank you guys.
It is evident on my particular set up, others may have a different experience, is that FLAC works, and sounds great. But AIFF appears to be the only format that sounds great, but more importantly, shows all the correct metadata in Folder, Artist, and Album views on Twonky?
Cheers to all...