Qobuz hi-res streaming service

I've been using since the beginning of December.

I feed stock Sonos into my NDX controlled with an iPad.  The Sonos interface is excellent.

There are no issues with this, I very occasionally receive an 'unable to browse music' message when first going into the application but a second try gets the list up.  No dropouts encountered.  I use the Windows desktop application to add music to favourites and manage the library.

It sounds excellent.  Sonos in general doesn't quite measure up to the NDX used on its own but it is close enough and good enough for serious listening.  

I've cancelled Spotify now, the quality for me was not good enough for proper listening, but I still use the free version on my Windows PC for music discovery if there is an item on Spotify that is not available on QoBuz.

I'm going to wait and see if there is any progress on a native application from Naim, if I get too impatient I may look at getting a W4S modded Sonos Connect which has good feedback on this forum.

Richard

Rafota

High-Res is for download only.

Streaming is 'just' in flac 44.1/16 or mp3 320kbps depending on streaming subscription. High-res cannot be streamed.

Cheers

Aleg

Hi Rafota,

It may be possible to use the USB input. Connect the iPhone, play something on iTunes, then stop the song, close the app, open Qbuz and play something. It works with Spotify on the NDS and the NDX.

Keith

Qobuz, you can stream or download a FLAC and have 3 mobile devices.

Spotify is said to have a much bigger music library and is half the price but only for 320k streaming / downloads.

Given the library difference still feels like Spotify is better if used as a 'try before you buy' and for portable device listening.

Hmmmm.....if the Qobuz library was equivalent...

Spotify does have more than QoBuz, but there is still too much there to ever get through!  I'm keen to explore more classical music and QoBuz seems really good for this, most of the classical items highlighted in the 'What are you listening to now...." thread can be found.

I'm taking the approach of using the desktop version of Spotify (free version) for exploration and using QoBuz for more serious listening.  

Anything I really like I add to my Amazon wishlist and then wait until the used price becomes attractive, then I buy it.  In the meantime the QoBuz version gives me close to my streamer in quality.  It's also nice for music that you like at the moment but might not necessarily want to buy.

Richard

Just out of interest, will you be comfortable with not doing this once the Qobuz coverage is comprehensive? This is the change in thinking which may be hard for most of us on here who have grown up with the acquisitive approach of owning a personal copy of music we like. With the advent of Qobuz there is no material difference in either approach as the quality is matched.

Personally I find the physical media for CD's a nuisance these days. The jewel cases etc are just more landfill sites. Hard to really engage with the artwork as it is so small. Tactile value of plastic is zero.

Marky

Yes, I think in time I will be.  Then I would look at only buying HD downloads for really special albums.

The main blocker at the moment is that the sound quality is not quite as good as local streaming for me.  Having said this it is pretty good!  This is down to the difference between the NDX directly streaming files and the Sonos feeding the SPDIF input of the NDX.

Clearly the stock Sonos is not quote as good as a transport as I hear these differences using local files via the Sonos.  I expect a W4S mod on the Sonos could resolve this.

This is why it would be nice for Naim to adopt say one high quality service and put it into their streamer.

Richard

Marky,

I did was KRM suggested above, in order to feed Qobuz data stream directly into my Uniti without the sonos, using the USB entry on the front of the Uniti. It works perfectly, for Qobuz, Spotify or anything else actually. I simply select the USK/iPod input, select any track on the iPod, does not matter, then switch to Qobuz, and that's it. The front display on the Uniti will even show what I am playing on Qobuz.

Try that, it will be interesting to see if you get a better audible sound after getting rid of the sonos middle man.

The Anglo French alliance: Focal:Naim / Qobuz:Naim.....!

Dumb question alert:

If I sign up to the hires streaming service with qobuz can I simply connect my iPad to the input on the front of the HDX and use it to control my listening?

Thanks,

G

Some food for thought there Richard.

I suppose with Qobuz offering the option to download FLACs the real blocker is the NDX not being able to access the Qobuz download library. If it could do that, you would have the full choice.

There are a couple of things I am not sure about with making a full switch to a service like Qobuz in the near future:

1) As with Spotify, the choice of album versions eg original or remaster is sometimes not at your discretion.

2) I have c.500GB of music. This is unwieldy and has been a lot of work to pull together. If I were to replace it entirely or in the incremental I would feel very much in bed with the service and this might not be a situation I want to be in forever. Some loss of future options perhaps - although this does come back to a 'need to own' which is perhaps false. It is out there when you want it. That is the new model.

Marky

Good points.

Your first doesn't worry me too much, if I like the music and it sounds good then I am not inclined to worry too much.

Regarding the second point, I agree.  I used Napster for a long time before the service went down hill with outages, dropouts etc.  It was quite a faff switching to Spotify, and I have recently done the same again moving to QoBuz.

For the moment, I'm happy to enjoy what they have to offer, and if the material is worthy of purchase, I will do so.

Richard

As above I have been trialling Qobuz alongside a Spotify Premium Account. I feed both through a Sonos Connect into a SuperUniti. The quality of some Qobuz streaming is marginally better than Spotify but I do not believe it is worth paying an extra £10 a month for this facility unless I was also being offered their discount on cost of downloaded Hi Res files  butwhat I actually get is The "Not Available for Download in your Country" Message.

I see that Qobuz have allowed some Forum members to bypass this restriction. I emailed them and was told that they will not allow me to bypass this restriction.

I feel that once again UK customers will be discriminated against and we will end up paying more for our music than other countries. I think the rest of Europe pays 19.99 Euros  for the Qobuz premium service not £19.99 GBP or am I mistaken?

Anyone else as disillusioned with Qobuz as me?

Richard, how is it going with Qobuz a little further on in time if you don't mind my asking?

I think you're right further up. Naim needs to either commit to adopting these services or make a statement saying it will not be doing so. I don't think the ambiguity helps.

Marky

It's going very well with QoBuz, I find I use it in fits and starts.

The quality via Sonos > NDX is very acceptable, much better than Spotify and I do find it suitable for 'serious' listening. The service seems pretty stable, more so than Spotify which used to have its moments via Sonos.  I do have a 120 meg internet connection which helps.

I was already a buyer of HD music from QoBuz and I found I could only buy the subscription in Euros which saved a few bob. Buying annually doesn't make it too more expensive than Spotify.

Another advantage over Spotify is you can use more than one client at the same time (Spotify cuts out if you do this), useful when you have a little person in the house who also enjoys her music.

One minor gripe is the way the favorites are sorted In the Sonos client. Generally QoBuz sorts by surname but the list is presented Firstname Surname.  I do find it a bit difficult to locate artists, brain goes into meltdown!  I probably need to review the list to make it smaller.  I use the iPad application to manage the favorites, it seems a well written application.

Richard

Thanks Richard. Think I will give it a whirl.

My initial findings / thoughts in comparison of Spotify and Qobuz:

• User interface - Spotify seems much better on web, desktop and mobile. Qobuz is quite usable but not as slick.
• Search - Spotify seems better although neither is perfect. Qobuz seems to have more inconsistencies.
• Music choice - Spotify has more choice. Qobuz is pretty good though and surpassed my expectations but also has some surprising omissions. I would guess there is 5% less available based on a random test. Spotify is not always perfect either.
• Sound quality - Qobuz sounds better on every device including mobile. FLAC is simply better than 320k but contingent on the recording it is not always loads better.
• Concurrent use across devices - only Qobuz offers this

Qobuz to me does not [yet] feel like it is worth £19.99 per month but on the annual basis where it is more like £16.50 per month that might be acceptable. I wonder if Spotify will improve sound quality now?

Marky

Good summary, I would agree with this.

On a user interface level, I prefer QoBuz to Spotify via the Sonos interface, but agree the web and desktop versions of QoBuz are slightly inferior.  I do like the QoBuz iPad client though.

Regarding choice, I think QoBuz wins on classical.  I'm trying to listen to more of this genre and I have had great success in locating music highlighted in the Music room thread which wasn't so successful with Spotify.

For me it's the sound quality that tips the balance.  I'm now happy listening to something via QoBuz and I will buy the CD if I really like it (or if it is a bargain!).  This is something I wouldn't have done with Spotify via the main system, I would have wanted to buy the quality version straight away.

For me then, the value is better I use QoBuz for many more hours per month than I did with Spotify so the price per hour is less which makes it better value to me.

Richard

Richard

After extensive testing on various platforms my conclusion on Qobuz is......you're absolutely right.

Regarding your point on purchasing music, it is interesting as the whole relationship with music may become less acqusitive. We still pay though of course and others may say you can buy 3 x s/h CD's per month instead of a Qobuz subscription.

For me, I find there is value in having the ability to explore a high-quality library rather than phyiscally owning lots of music up to half of which I rarely play. What I am getting to grips with is not having to own and retain my own copy. Like most of us, there has always been that collectors element to enjoying music. The trainspotter bit if you will. I think this is a change for the better but need to get used to it for a bit. Meanwhile, but only for the special stuff, I will still buy some FLAC downloads, vinyl and an occasional CD where not available elsewhere.

Re Qobuz vs Spotify, you were completely right. My enjoyment and usage has also increased with the former including portable so thanks for the tip-off. As you said, Qobuz on Sonos is preferable to Spotify on Sonos.

KR, MM

Marky

Interesting to read your conclusions and how they align with mine.

Do I gather you are listening on Sonos as well, if so what are you feeding it into?

I have been experimenting this afternoon with the Windows desktop client and using Asset to redirect the sound card output as a UPNP stream to the NDX.

This is sounding rather fine, too early to be sure but initial thoughts are that it sounds better than the Sonos into the NDX. Trouble is that it's a bit more of a faff so looking at the best way to do this.

Richard

Some very interesting comments here. I currently subscribe to Spotify Premium, and buy quite a few downloads from Qobuz, amongst others. Most of my listening is to classical, and one thing I think I'd miss with streaming is access to programme notes, and texts/translations for sung works. These are almost always available as PDF downloads when you buy a download, but what about when you're listening to a stream?

Richard I still maintain that you are in a privileged position to somehow be buying your subscription to qobuz in euros whilst the rest of us uk customers are being ripped off in pounds or do they offer the annual subscription in euros?

goon525 is it the case that qobuz allow you to buy classical downloads in the uk? My xperience with jazz, folk, rock music was that I kept on being advised that this music was unavailable in my country due to copyright issues. I still resent being charged more for a lesser service as a uk customer so will stick with spotify premium. i use sonos through a super uniti and am in the process of putting in a dedicated mains spur as per other threads, I wonder if this will do much to improve sq for spotify/sonos.

Yes, I think I had to ask them to be allowed to purchase downloads (as advised by others on this forum), but it happened quickly and easily. I think I've only purchased classical from them, but that includes major label stuff where they were cheaper than the UK sources.