Klemperer Beethoven ~ Symphonies: Any thoughts?

I can't speak for Klemperer/Philharmonia mono recordings but his later '59 Stereo recording of Eroica is one of my favourite.

Klemperer brings out  colourful yet subtle human expressions. There are many dynamic shift and changing of tempo/moods to keep my interest going all the way to the long climb to the sensational finale.

I wonder how's his earlier mono performance fairs against this later stereo sets.

Hope George would chime in to get his input. He's more familiar with all things Klemperer than anyone!

Dear Tony,

I would say that you should actually buy the recent release of the Klemperer Beethoven orchestral recordings on EMI/Warner [as it is now variously called] Which set has about ten or fifteen CDs in at about £2 a disc. The company is releasing almost the entire Klemperer studio legacy recorded for EMI between 1954 and 1971. A remarkable effort and I am about half way through getting them!

The Beethoven set is exceptional, as it the Mozart as ... Okay it all rather amazing!

As for the specific recording from 1955.

They are certainly generally just a bit quicker in tempo as compared with the stereo remakes, but the feeling is surprisingly similar. Clear, rhythmically resilient, exciting, and very well played as well. 

The mono recordings are quite similar in tone and issued in mono do not seem to have that mono effect of being from a very small spot right between the speakers. The original mono LPs did not either .

I'll try to post a link to the new issue I am pointing you at.

There is a wealth of splendid and rare recordings in it seeing the light of day for the first time in years and some of them for the first time on CD.

I know you have the official stereo set, but the low price of this set means that you should not be put off by that. I would avoid pseudo stereo releases such as the LPs you are looking at ...

ATB from George

Currently a few pence less than £20 on amazon.

Having acquired both the Beethoven and Mozart box sets that George mentions I also picked this up at my local HMV, not bad for £14.

Mark

Dear George,

Thank you for the advice. I do own the above box set, recommended by you, and  it is superb and excellent value for money. Althought I love my vinyl,  I try to stay clear from classical music pre-owned material, hence the post looking for guidance.  Many thanks once again for your response and advice.

Hope the weather gets better soon so you can go back on the road with the Carltons.

KR,

Tony

Mark,

Thank you for the recommendation and I will take a look at their website later. Much appreciated.

KR

Tony

Tony,

As George says, avoid re-channeled stereo LP like a plague.

You are in the UK so try sourcing the original pressing! Surely they should sound better than any of the US Angles or Vox pressings I have.

Performance wise, tho, you have to listen to the mono recording and see if they are worth picking up musically for you.

Does the EMI box set include both performances?

Inspire by your thread, I've dig these out of stack of Beethoven Symphonies I've yet to listen to.  Found  Stereo Beethoven's 5th and earlier '51 recording ( unfortunately this is a re-channeled stereo ) Vox pressing with Vienna Symphony. The fake stereo sound is not so great on the Vox, but I sort of like his brisk  mono version.

Now I am curious about the '57 mono with Philharmonic per George's comments about the tempo change! Comparatively the stereo recording sounds a bit like a record player running slower in speed but I am coming off from Toscanini's 5th which is about 10 min. faster than Klemperer set! ( not to mention two completely different style of expressions )

Dear Kuma,

The new set I posted a picture of [amazon link] contains the mono recordings in fine transfers in mono as they should be.

For example there are three recordings of the Seventh Symphony - 1955, 1960 and 1967. 

Otherwise there are two of the Eroica, and two of the Fifth, but otherwise one each of the rest.

There are some superb and rare recordings of various famous and rare Beethoven Overtures. And other out of the way music such as the Prometheus music, which is a real find, and a real surprise.

I cannot recommend this set highly enough!

ATB from George

$43.06 in the US.  No wonder some resellers based in the UK can offer at much less cost to US customers.

Kuma & George,

Following your advice(s), I have decided to avoid the box set completely although it was going for no money at all. Here is a photo of the pieces contained on the two vinyls.

The pitfalls of buying second hand classical vinyl are many and I shall tread carefully from now on.

Many thanks to both of you.

KR,

Tony

Dear Tony,

Now I see just what the programme is, I'll really say that in the 1954 Leonore Number One you get a Beethoven performance to marvel at. The Second is tenser than the stereo remake, but not more impressive. The Third is a Tour de Force, and electrifying. Totally amazing to hear playing like that, but most of all surprisingly tender as well.

The Grosse Fugue is tough piece of music, originally intended for String Quartet [as the Finale of Opus 130, but published separately as Opus 133], it proved to be not a really practical piece to perform, being so difficult.

To counter this various conductors have doubled the cello line on double bass in parts, so as to allow an ensemble [ranging from perhaps 20 players to 80 according to taste] of orchestral strings to perform it. The results are satisfying in a way that String Quartet performances are usually not because of the sheer strain of what is being asked.

Klemperer's performance of a modified version of Weingartner's arrangement remains one of finest.

The thread has already covered the Symphonies contained, but the new CDs also contain the 1954 Fidelio Overture recording [marvelous] and the 1956 Consecration Of The House Overture, which is stunningly similar too the remake in 1959. In fact if you did not know which was being played you would never guess either from the playing or the recording itself!

I wonder why it was done again! Except that with all, the later performance has more cumulative grandeur, and this piece is rather grand!

ATB from George

Bart

check this one out. http://www.bookbutler.com/music/compare?ean=5099940427522&in=uk&to=us&cur=usd

just $23.50 from the usa

cheers

aleg

Well I've bought it anyway!

SJB

George!

I did not realise this EMI Remastered CD from 2002 is the mono version of Eroica!All this time I thought this was the mono version of the stereo vinyl I have.

I do remember that Abbey Road Studio have done a great job on this CD.

I assume that they used the same remaster on your 2012 Box set?

I do not remember a thing about the Lenore No.1 & 2 except that it was fun to listen to. I have to spin it again!

I bet that the original mono vinyl is great sounding but it is so hard to source the mint copy at a reasonable price so I am happy with this well-done Red Book CD.

Dear Kuma,

Yes this is the 1955 mono recording of the Eroica with 1954 recordings of the First Two Leonora Overtures.

These are the same remasterings in the new big box, and that Great Recordings of the Century disc originally cost half as much as the new set on its own!

Have a listen to the Leonore Number One for a lithe, muscular, flexible of phrase and powerfully momentous performance. What must it have been like in the concert hall? Klemperer's arrival in London was regarded as a revelation at the rime.

The cover shows the original LP sleeve of the Eroica. In my school days these mono [English] Columbia LPs of all Nine Symphonies were one of major delights to me in the school music library between the ages of nine and thirteen!

The stereo recordings were issued at full price on EMI HMV in about 1970 [about a decade plus after recording] at full price [£2 and one shilling].  Yes I started buying the stereos for myself as an eleven year old! 

But the earlier mono performances were lost to me till about ten years ago.

I am so pleased that EMI have comprehensively re-released them in such good transfers, and nicely priced.

ATB from George

Thanks Aleg!  That's actually a UK based seller - one I use a lot from the Amazon US site (Zoverstocks).  They have been thoroughly reliable. It just takes a few days for Royal Mail to reach me, but nothing bad.

I think the Klemperer mono recordings of the Eroica, 5th and 7th symphonies are preferable to the stereo remakes, both in performance and sound; the balances are better IMO.

HOWEVER, I don't know if it's been mentioned here but the 1955 mono recording  of the 7th was also simultaneously recorded in stereo and released by EMI in its studio series a few years ago. It was at the time EMI was experimenting with stereo. Karajan's Die Rosenkavalier received similar treatment.

I still prefer Guido's Cantelli's Philharmonia recording of the 7th, recorded a couple of years earlier.Much more fire!!

The cheap EMI ICON box set of his recordings in a must,

Sister xx

Dear Sister E,

I did not mention it, but nowadays, i doubt if it would be easy to find a CD of the mono recording from 1955 as there was only one brief release back in the 1980s of it in mono, before the stereo tapes were restored.

The big new set of these recordings contains the 1955 in true original stereo, and it is amazingly fine. 

Guido Cantelli was a quite different style of conductor compared with Otto Klemperer. He was a protege of Arturo Toscanini, and was very much in the fiery Italian Opera tradition.

I know his recordings of Beethoven's Seventh and Mendelsohnn's Italian Symphonies, and I agree that they are superb. In fact the Italian Symphony recording is my favourite, though Klemperer in the music is just as apt. In the Seventh, I prefer the Kl;emperor performance, but no one would go wrong with either conductor. They would would just find a different style of music making that  - as with all the greatest music and music making - is just as stylish and enjoyable!

ATB from George

Thank you George,

I think you'll find the Naxos reissue of the 1955 7th Symphony uses the original mono mix.

It is available, with the mono 5th, for around six quid on Amazon,

Sister xx

Dear Siss,

I'll look into that myself as I know that certain different takes were edited for the mono version. It is a slightly different performance as  far as I read the technical note when EMI first released the stereo edition on CD in the early 1990s. Though the company had issued the stereo edit in 1955 on special reel to reel tape ....

Sames sessions but certain different takes.

ATB from George

George,

According to the booklet notes for the 1991 release of the Klemperer monos, "During the 1955 sessions, Symphony No.7 was also recorded in "Experimental" stereo by Christopher Parker, working in a different control room from Walter Legge".

It's not clear whether they used different takes for the mono or stereo releases then, although it's perfectly possible,

Sister xx

Is that 1991 release on three LPs? Mainly shiny grey front on the box?

I got that set at the time.

Shortly after EMI issued [in the Studio series] the restored stereo tapes on CD for the first time.

I read that Christopher Parker operated the stereo tape recorder, which frequently broke down, but did yield a complete recording, but also that it was not quite the same set of takes complete in stereo as was chosen for the mono LP issue.

Apparently Walter Legge [producer] was deeply antipathetic towards the stereo experimental recordings and the team doing them!

ATB from George

Do we know if Klemperer had any preference between the stereo and mono recording?

George,

I have the 1991 Klemperer edition on CD...I was quoting from the booklet notes.

Kuma,

Klemperer was utterly confused by stereo, hence his total panic when Nicolai Gedda starting running around the sound stage during the stereo recording of The Magic Flute in 1964. He thought Gedda was trying to get out of the studio when he was simply running from one mic to another...

I think he preferred mono...

Sister xx